Plenary, 14 Apr 2005

Meeting date: Thursday, April 14, 2005

Official Report 754KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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General Questions

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State Hospital, Carstairs

To ask the Scottish Executive what assistance is available to national health service boards to ensure that people inappropriately accommodated at the state hospital, Carstairs, can be returned to their home areas. (S2O-6090)

Patients are transferred to the state hospital because they need clinical care and treatment in a secure environment. In most cases, following treatment, it is expected that their state of health will improve sufficiently to enable them to move to supportive and appropriately secure settings outside the state hospital. Some patients will be transferred to other hospitals and others will be managed in the community with appropriate support from social work and local health services.

During 2003-04, 57 patients were discharged or transferred from the state hospital—32 went to other NHS hospitals, 14 went to the courts, 10 went to prisons and one went into the community. We are currently working with NHS boards and the State Hospitals Board for Scotland to ensure that arrangements are in place so that patients who are assessed as no longer requiring care and treatment at the state hospital can be returned to their home areas with the minimum of delay.

I thank the minister for her comprehensive response.

The minister may know that there are currently six patients from Fife who have been placed in the state hospital who no longer need to be there and for whom the hospital no longer offers appropriate accommodation. Continuing care at the state hospital is viewed as detrimental to their health and care. I am sure that there are examples of such people from other parts of Scotland. How can health boards be encouraged, or perhaps forced, to provide adequate community resources? When will investment be made available so that such people will no longer have to remain at Carstairs? Does the minister agree that much needs to be done, perhaps with the Executive's leadership, to reduce and—I hope—eradicate the prejudice towards and stigma that is attached to former patients of the state hospital?

I am aware that some patients are inappropriately placed at the moment. NHS boards' responsibilities for and commitments to mentally disordered patients have been made abundantly clear to them through policy documents and the performance management process.

On provision and where we are with medium secure units, the east of Scotland is well catered for by the 50-bed Orchard clinic in Edinburgh. Work is expected to begin on the 76-bed unit at Stobhill in Glasgow in the coming months, and the business planning process for the 36-bed unit at Dykebar in Paisley—which will serve patients from the west of Scotland—is progressing well; it is expected that that unit will receive patients in 2007. Discussions are under way for the development of a medium secure unit for patients in the north of Scotland.

I agree that there is a need to reduce the stigma that is associated with patients with mental health problems who have offended. Scott Barrie will be aware that the anti-stigma work that the Executive is funding is beginning to show results. We continue to commit ourselves to such work.

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Sewage Pollution

To ask the Scottish Executive what powers the Scottish Environment Protection Agency has over sewage pollution. (S2O-6029)

SEPA has statutory powers to regulate water pollution under the Control of Pollution Act 1974, as amended. The entry or discharge of sewage effluent to controlled waters is illegal, unless it is authorised by a consent that is issued by SEPA. Consent standards are established from the requirements of a range of legislation. SEPA also has statutory powers to issue notices to prevent, minimise, remedy or mitigate the effects of polluting discharges on the environment, and powers to report offences under the Control of Pollution Act 1974 and other legislation to the procurator fiscal, with a recommendation for prosecution.

In the light of the non-stop flow of e-mails and letters that I receive that highlight continued instances of sewage pollution, and in the light of the number of pollution incidents with which SEPA must deal, does the minister agree that SEPA's current powers are insufficient to deal with a problem that is increasing? As a result, will he increase SEPA's powers to deal with such problems? Will he increase the level of monitoring and regulation of sewage pollution? Will he increase the levels of fines for companies that have been found to cause sewage pollution?

I do not agree with the fundamental proposition that SEPA lacks adequate powers. Rosemary Byrne will know that under the provisions of the Water Environment and Water Services (Scotland) Act 2003, SEPA has an overview of the pollution of waters. That is clearly significant, as is the act to which I referred earlier. The water investment programme that we outlined in Parliament last month provides for significant investment in improving the standard of waters around Scotland's coastline and of its internal waters.

The solution is to maintain activity in the way that SEPA has done. SEPA maintains a close watching brief and is effective in dealing with issues when they arise.

As the minister is aware, I have proposed to his colleague Ross Finnie that pollution prevention and control regulations should be amended to require a specific waste recovery licence that would allow SEPA to conduct much more rigorous control over sewage sludge disposal on land and which would be paid for by the operators under the polluter pays principle. What consideration has he given to that proposal?

Adam Ingram should be aware that waste management licence exemptions are required for the kind of spreading that has been discussed. It is worth restating that when it comes to how we deal with sewage, recycling it and using it for constructive purposes, such as on land or for burning for energy, are far preferable options to landfill and other forms of disposal. Rather than seeking to inhibit the proper use of sewage sludge for recycling, we should seek to enable it to happen in a way that is controlled and monitored—as it is by SEPA—but which allows that waste to be disposed of in as environmentally beneficial a way as possible.

SEPA has identified more than 2,000km of rivers and coastal waters that are being affected by sewage or contaminated surface water discharges and some 600km of our rivers and coasts as an absolute must for investment. SEPA is already set to be underfunded to the tune of £20 million for meeting the water framework directive requirements. Why is the Executive, through its under-resourcing of SEPA, undermining its own Water Environment and Water Services (Scotland) Act 2003, to which the minister referred in his answer to Ms Byrne?

The simple answer is that we are not underfunding SEPA; we are making provision for SEPA to carry out its statutory duties, in relation to the Water Environment and Water Services (Scotland) Act 2003 as well as its other statutory duties. As I said in my earlier answer, the provision that we have indicated for Scottish Water over the coming investment programme period will allow the investment of significant sums to improve water quality in our rivers and around our coasts.

The minister referred to the burning of waste products. He will be aware that a block has been put on burning at Longannet power station, which produces a pelletised, treated sewage product. The alternative method is to bury untreated sewage around the country. Surely the minister must take a stand on that matter and address it promptly.

I am glad that Phil Gallie agrees that landfilling of sewage sludge is not a preferable option. That is why we support other forms of disposal, including its proper use on land and in burning for energy. The decision to which Phil Gallie referred has been made in court and it is not for me to comment on the merits of judicial decisions. However, that decision does not prevent Scottish Power from burning sewage sludge at Longannet. Although it puts new regulatory requirements on that process, it does not prevent disposal of sewage sludge by that method.

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Institutional Child Abuse

To ask the Scottish Executive what action has been taken following the debate in the Parliament on institutional child abuse on 1 December 2004. (S2O-6237)

We are actively taking forward the wide range of work that I outlined in my speech during that debate and my subsequent letter to the convener of the Public Petitions Committee, and we are seeking to do so in collaboration with survivors of institutional abuse wherever possible.

We are almost five months on from that letter, in which the minister made commitments to redact files for public inspection and provide support for those who wished to access them; to hold discussions on the law of limitation; to establish a short-life working group, which was supposed to be set up early in 2005; to appoint an independent analyst; and to provide financial support for the in-care abuse survivors group.

It was agreed unanimously in the chamber that the survivors of institutional child abuse had been ignored for too long—for two years, in fact—by the Executive after they submitted their petition. Will the minister confirm that action will be taken soon and that those people will not be ignored any longer?

Far from seeking to ignore the people to whom the member refers, we seek to engage them actively in the work that we are undertaking. As members know, we take such issues seriously; that resulted in the First Minister making an apology on behalf of the people of Scotland for what happened to some survivors of institutional abuse.

As I said, we have a comprehensive work programme. All the files that we said would be redacted have been redacted and they are open for inspection. A web page advertises how they can be accessed and a helpline has been established, run by Who Cares? Scotland, which makes referrals to counselling services as appropriate. We are helping the In Care Abuse Survivors/In Care Abused Support group—INCAS—to advertise access to that helpline. As we promised, the information commissioner is auditing our practices to ensure that we opened up those files properly. The short-life working group to which the member refers is about to start work in the next couple of months. INCAS has been involved in the remit of that group and in recommending membership for it. We expect INCAS to be represented on that group.

As for the independent expert, we have identified candidates, we are making approaches to individuals to ensure that they are available to do that work and we hope to make an announcement soon. Although I see the Presiding Officer indicating to me that I am going on too long, I must say that we are taking a number of actions to which I could continue to add. I know that Linda Fabiani has lodged nine written questions on the matter and she will receive full answers to them all in due course.

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Outdoor Education

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to improve opportunities for schoolchildren to participate in outdoor education. (S2O-6072)

Learning and Teaching Scotland has been asked to undertake a development programme to promote and support the development of outdoor education in Scotland. It is in the process of employing a development officer to drive forward progress in that area.

I am sure that the minister will agree that outdoor education has a number of benefits for young people, particularly with regard to their health and in understanding the environment, as well as in teaching them leadership skills and team building. Does the minister agree with the Liberal Democrats that there should be an opportunity for all children of secondary school age to have a week's outdoor education?

I am always happy to see other parties catching up with the Labour Party. It is evident that Iain Smith has been reading the Labour Party manifesto that was published only yesterday and I am glad that that is the case. However, he has no need to convince me of the benefits of outdoor education, which are apparent to me. I am a strong supporter of outdoor education for exactly the reasons that Iain Smith mentioned. It can have life-changing effects for young people, it can contribute to their learning across the curriculum, it provides new lifelong interest for them, and it helps them to understand sustainable development and the impact of change in our environment on our lives.

That is why we are making efforts to improve outdoor education. Curriculum reform will try to open up more space in which young people can participate in outdoor education and additional teachers should give more opportunity for that. An outdoor education development officer is being appointed by Learning and Teaching Scotland this month and that will contribute to good practice. We have recently issued health and safety guidance for outdoor education to encourage those activities to take place safely. All that is being done, but I am always willing to listen to what more we could do to promote outdoor education even further.

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Eco-schools

To ask the Scottish Executive how it is supporting the development of eco-schools. (S2O-6063)

The Executive is providing significant funding to the keep Scotland beautiful campaign to develop its capacity to support and assess schools that are engaged in the eco-schools programme. That funding amounts to £350,000 a year for the next three years, which is more than double the funding for the previous years.

The minister is aware of the additional funding for the development of three new high schools in Berwickshire, in both his and my constituencies, as well as the imagination of Borders pupils in responding to the eco-schools initiative. Will he ensure that he works closely with ministers with responsibility for enterprise and Scottish Borders Council so that, as the council moves towards the tendering stage for the building of those new high schools, every consideration is given to their environmental sustainability, including their heating and power by biomass, which is a renewable source of energy that is in abundant supply in the Borders?

As Mr Purvis knows, the eco-schools programme encourages young people to think about a sustainable future and promotes active citizenship through a pupil-centred approach. There is no doubt that children and young people can make a significant contribution where schools are being redeveloped.

I am intimately familiar with the situation in Berwickshire, as Mr Purvis will understand. There are major opportunities, both in Berwickshire and in schools that are being redeveloped in other areas, for energy-efficient systems to be put in, for developmental work to take place and for us to share good practice in that regard throughout Scotland.

Will the minister join me in welcoming yesterday's announcement of a new-build school at Greenwood Academy in Irvine as part of an £80 million school investment programme in North Ayrshire? Does he agree that North Ayrshire Council's commitment to making the school eco-friendly is an excellent example of partnership between local authorities and the Scottish Executive, which is delivering for the children in my area? Given that Greenwood Academy is Nicola Sturgeon's former school, perhaps, for a change, the Scottish National Party will welcome the initiative as well.

Indeed the initiative is welcome, as is the opportunity that will be provided by the development for the provision of modern systems in the new school building. Nicola Sturgeon's former school might still be able to teach her something years later.

Is the minister in a position to update the Parliament about breaking down some of the barriers that perhaps do not exist in North Ayrshire Council but which seem to be affecting the ability of schools in my constituency to break through the restrictive rules of public-private partnerships and ensure that sustainability can be built into the heating systems of schools such as Breadalbane Academy? That has been an issue for a considerable time. Will the minister give us specific evidence to show that the Government has resolved the difficulties?

I am grateful to the member for raising the issue again; he has been assiduous in doing so in the past. Other ministers had a meeting with the local authority about it, which I would be pleased to discuss with the member outside the chamber. I am not intimately familiar with all the details of that meeting. I have said before that opportunities, such as that at Breadalbane Academy, should be taken where possible.

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Infected Cadavers (Handling Guidelines)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it will adopt the recent Department of Health guidelines contained in "The management of health, safety and welfare issues for NHS staff" on handling infected cadavers. (S2O-6081)

I call the First Minister—sorry, I meant Mr Kerr.

A shock was felt around the chamber there, Presiding Officer—my shock was the biggest.

The guidelines on handling infected cadavers will be referred to an expert group to consider whether they should be adopted for use by NHSScotland.

The minister has indicated that he will set up a group. Will he assure me that that group will pay appropriate attention to the health and safety of health professionals, relatives of deceased persons and funeral workers? Will the outcome of the group's work be applied uniformly throughout Scotland?

The expert group will consider all those matters and I hope that that would be its conclusion. We want to ensure that the advice is appropriate to Scotland and takes account of Scotland's needs and that Scotland's professionals are involved in the process. The group will include occupational health physicians and nurses as well as health and safety representatives. NHS Tayside has undertaken good work in developing its advice to its staff. The advice will protect health professionals, funeral workers and relatives. The expert group will consider what we can learn and from where, as well as building on the best practice that exists in Scotland.