Plenary, 13 Mar 2003

Meeting date: Thursday, March 13, 2003

Official Report 695KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he next plans to meet the Prime Minister and what issues he intends to raise. (S1F-2569)

I spoke with the Prime Minister last night and we plan to meet later in the month.

This morning we debated the international situation and I return to one of the questions in that debate. Will the First Minister support military action in Iraq in the absence of a specific mandate from the United Nations?

I was asked that question this morning and, as I said then, there are different views on the extent to which resolution 1441 provides a mandate. As I also said this morning, I think that the absolute priority for the United Kingdom and for the international community at this time is to secure that second resolution that the Prime Minister has earnestly, genuinely and hopefully for the United Kingdom suggested should include a set of clear targets for Saddam Hussein and a clear deadline for meeting them. That one final chance seems to be the right way forward for the United Nations and I hope that it takes it.

While we were debating the issue this morning, the Prime Minister told the leader of the Conservative party in London that a second resolution was now probably less likely than it had been at any other time. Now that the Prime Minister is facing up to the reality that a second resolution is not going to be forthcoming, will the First Minister do likewise? I ask him once again: does he support a war without UN backing?

I have just answered the final part of Mr Swinney's question by saying that, as was made clear in today's debate, there are different views about the extent of the existing mandate. However, in my view, there is a clear preference among politicians in Edinburgh and the United Kingdom and among the British public and the Scottish public that the United Nations should take its responsibilities seriously and pass a second resolution. People would welcome the Prime Minister's initiative to ensure that the resolution had a clear deadline.

The Prime Minister's strategy over the past six months has been instrumental in ensuring that the United States of America does not take precipitate action in Iraq. I believe that, if it were not for the actions of Tony Blair, the USA would already be at war. Whatever is happening elsewhere—and whatever might be said by the media elsewhere or by politicians in another place—I do not believe that the chamber should undermine the Prime Minister's efforts at this vital stage.

That was the third time today that I have asked the First Minister that question and, again, a clear answer was not forthcoming. It is the material question before the Parliament decides on the issue at decision time later today. When our Parliament meets again next week, this country might be at war with Iraq. The people of Scotland are entitled to hear the views of our First Minister on this vital issue. On the final time of asking, will the First Minister support a war without UN backing?

I am sad at the fact that—[Interruption.] This is a serious subject and it deserves a serious response. Just as, in my view, simplistic views are wrong in Washington and in Paris, they are wrong in this chamber. This is not a simple matter with one answer that is right or wrong. This is a complex matter that requires sensible, cool heads at a difficult time to make the right decisions. I do not envy Tony Blair, our Prime Minister, the decision that he might have to make in the next few weeks, but I will not contribute to this chamber's undermining his efforts to get the United Nations to do the right thing. He is attempting to achieve that, he is right to do so and I hope that he succeeds.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S1F-2582)

Mr McLetchie will be surprised to know that we will discuss matters of importance at the Cabinet.

I am not in the least surprised to hear that. That is what the First Minister and the Cabinet are paid to do.

We are all acutely aware that this might be the last First Minister's question time before Scottish servicemen and women are involved in military action in Iraq. We would all agree that they deserve our full backing and support, should action be taken. The First Minister will know that men and women who are on active service abroad are always concerned for their families at home. Would he care to update the Parliament on the security and other measures that are being taken to protect people in Scotland? Is he satisfied that contingency plans are in place and that they are robust?

There are three issues. First, the Ministry of Defence takes its responsibilities seriously in ensuring that people who will be worried and concerned at home when members of their families are abroad and potentially facing conflict are looked after properly and given every support. All public services in Scotland—either those for which we have some responsibility or those in the hands of our local authorities—should assist the MOD in providing that support. That is the sort of co-ordination that is currently going on.

Secondly, the contingency planning that is necessary in these circumstances has been assiduous. This week again there were meetings and exercises to ensure that, across the board in Scotland, those who are responsible for contingency planning are ready and prepared for any eventuality in any way that it is possible to be prepared for those circumstances.

Thirdly and finally, it is important that we do all that we can to reduce community tensions at this time, particularly in our schools, where I am concerned that children of ethnic minorities in Scotland may be bullied if international tensions rise. We must ensure that, in our schools and elsewhere in the weeks ahead, those who live peacefully in Scotland in our communities—either because they were born here and live here and are part of our community or because they have come here in more recent years—do not become targets for racist abuse.

Having reflected on this morning's debate, does the First Minister agree that no one in the Parliament is pro-war, but that we are all anti-Saddam Hussein? The First Minister mentioned people who are now living in Scotland. Does he agree that we should listen to some of the Iraqis who are living in exile in Scotland, who know that there will be no peace in their homeland until Saddam is removed? We were all shocked to read about the chemical warfare that Saddam Hussein waged against his own people, which was graphically illustrated and described in The Herald newspaper this morning. Does the First Minister agree that, if Saddam Hussein can do that to his own people, he is certainly a threat to the rest of us and that we must be vigilant against the possibility of terrorist activity and reprisals?

As I said in this morning's debate, I had personal knowledge of the circumstances in Iraq 20-odd years ago, when Iraqi students in this country needed protection from the Iraqi secret services as they were persecuted and chased around Scotland. That matter is serious, but it is not as serious as the 15th anniversary on 16 March of Saddam Hussein's horrific gas attack against his own people. That shows the nature not only of the man but—let us not be too personal—of the regime. Whatever our differences on the tactics for other issues of the day, we in this country need to be clear that we should stand united and say that, for him, enough is enough.

Does the First Minister accept that the United Nations must be the forum of international decision making, to ensure that unilateral military action is avoided?

I strongly believe that the United Nations is the right forum for such international decision making. That is why I have said consistently and—I hope—clearly that, should further military action be expected or required, the decision should be made in the United Nations. However, I am not prepared to second-guess what might or might not happen in the next few days.

Nobody should doubt that the Prime Minister's actions are motivated not only by what he believes to be right, but by a desire to represent British public opinion. It is right and proper to say that his actions in the past 48 hours to seek a second resolution that gives Saddam Hussein a further deadline, even though he was given a final deadline back in November, are honourable. I hope that the international community responds positively.

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Broadband Services (Access)

To ask the First Minister how the Scottish Executive will ensure optimum access to broadband services. (S1F-2585)

We want 70 per cent of the Scottish population to have access to affordable broadband by March next year. We are spending £24 million to accelerate access. On Monday, I announced the upgrade of telecoms exchanges in Buckie, Dingwall, Forres, Fort William, Nairn and Oban. In one stroke, that almost doubles broadband coverage in the Highlands and Islands. I think that that is welcome.

I welcome the First Minister's response. In his move to increase access to broadband, will he take account of the need to upgrade telephone exchanges on the periphery of our cities? I am thinking particularly of the exchange in Loanhead in Midlothian, which covers Scotland's biggest biotechnology cluster and world-class engineering firms such as MacTaggart, Scott and Co. Does he agree that such firms, which provide high-skilled jobs to hundreds of people, need access to broadband if they are to prosper and fulfil their potential?

Access to broadband is important for local communities, for jobs and for Scotland's local economies. Recently, we have allowed the market to make progress, but we need now to intervene and to secure further development. That is what we are trying to do. I hope that access will be available in many more areas in the next few years.

On Monday, the First Minister announced developments with the pathfinder project in the Highlands and Islands. Will he confirm that he is satisfied that no competition law, regulatory or European Union state-aid constraints will prevent the benefits that accrue from the pathfinder project from being rolled out to businesses and individuals in those areas?

Yes, I am convinced that that is the case.

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Emergency Planning (Support)

To ask the First Minister what additional support is being given to local government emergency planning officers to assist in responding to emergencies following the relocation of military personnel from Scotland. (S1F-2575)

Emergency planning in Scotland is kept under constant review to ensure that Scotland is able and ready to deal with any emergency that might arise. When circumstances change, plans are adjusted by those who are responsible for them.

In an earlier answer, the First Minister said that several exercises had taken place in councils throughout Scotland. I understand that most of them were desktop exercises. I draw the First Minister's attention to the fact that the budget for emergency planning in local authorities is only just over half what the Executive spends on advertising. Does that not show that the Executive's electoral future has a higher priority than the safety of people throughout Scotland?

Apart from the fact that additional funding is available for emergency planning, quite frankly that was a silly question. It is nonsense to suggest that the Executive's road safety advertising and other such advertising has anything to do with the election. To say so demeans Stewart Stevenson and others who make that argument.

In the event of war with Iraq, has the national health service in Scotland made plans for the hospitalisation of wounded troops?

We all hope that that situation will not arise. If it does, Scottish hospitals will, as Dorothy-Grace Elder can imagine, play their part in providing the appropriate services that are needed as part of the national health service across the UK.

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Housing Stock Transfers (Investment)

To ask the First Minister what initiatives the Scottish Executive proposes to promote further local authority housing stock transfers to allow further investment into the public housing sector following the recent successful transfers in Glasgow and the Borders. (S1F-2593)

The successful transfers in Glasgow and the Scottish Borders and the forthcoming transfer in Dumfries and Galloway demonstrate the success of the current policy. In her statement to the Parliament last November, the Minister for Social Justice said that she would consider how we could further encourage local authorities to consider transfer. An announcement on that subject will be made shortly.

Does the First Minister accept that whole stock transfer may not be an attractive option for many of the remaining councils—I think that Argyll and Bute Council is the only council that is still in the queue—or for tenants in council areas where the housing stock has generally been well maintained? Does he agree that partial stock transfers could generate much-needed investment for specific estates?

Will the First Minister give a commitment, perhaps in the impending announcement, that it will be possible for Scottish councils to have the Treasury support that I understand is now to be made available to English councils to redeem overhanging debt in relation to partial stock transfers? Is the Scottish Executive willing to pilot arm's-length management projects that might allow existing public sector stock to be upgraded, but off the public sector balance sheet?

I think that Margaret Curran has made it clear that she is keen to look at a range of different options. As she will shortly be publishing a consultation paper on the matter, it would be wrong of me to pre-empt that. I emphasise today that the changes to local authority capital borrowing powers, particularly in relation to housing, will make a difference, as will the range of options that are to be made available to local authorities, which will increase their freedom to invest in their local stock. That is a good thing and I look forward to its happening over the next two years.

I am sure that the First Minister agrees that the proposals in Argyll and Bute for whole stock transfer into community ownership are welcome, not least because they will provide significant, much-needed investment to improve the quality of people's homes. However, will he take on board the fact that the cost of construction is higher in rural and island communities because of a shortage of skilled labour? Will he take account of that additional cost in arriving at a valuation for transfer?

Discussions are taking place with Argyll and Bute Council on that matter. It would be wrong of me to intervene in public at this time. I hope that the discussions continue to be productive. I am sure that they will reach a satisfactory conclusion. If they do, the benefits for the people of Argyll and Bute will be there to be seen.

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Mountain Rescue

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Executive is doing to support mountain rescue. (S1F-2580)

Mountain rescue teams play a vital role in Scotland. On Sunday, I announced that we will be making a contribution of around £300,000 towards the modernisation of their radios. More general funding for mountain rescue teams is currently provided by police forces. We are in discussion with mountain rescue representatives and the police about those arrangements in order to ensure appropriate levels of funding for mountain rescue in the future. On Sunday, I gave a commitment to the Cairngorm mountain rescue team that I would reach a decision on the matter by the autumn, if I am fortunate enough to be in a position to do so.

I welcome the funding that the First Minister has announced. It is worth noting that the request for that funding was made to my colleague Peter Peacock when he was in Inverness as part of the public consultation on the Scottish Executive budget. That shows that the public can influence Scottish Executive funding. I am also pleased that the First Minister will look at revenue funding for the mountain rescue and—

Question.

We need a question.

I would very much ask him—[Laughter.] Will he look sympathetically at the mountain rescue teams' plea? The issue is about safety. If members of mountain rescue teams do not have the equipment that they require when they go into the hills, their lives could be put at risk.

I was not aware that the suggestion had come from the budget meeting in Inverness. If that is the case, it shows the benefit of having such consultations and listening meetings.

I am well aware of the seriousness of the issue and it is regrettable that some members on the nationalist benches think that it is funny. Safety on our Scottish mountains and hills is critical to the tens of thousands who use them every weekend and to our tourism industry. I intend to take up two issues that were raised with me on Sunday. The first is on-going revenue funding, which is about £60,000 a year for Scottish Mountain Rescue. That looks as though it is insufficient. Secondly, mountain safety provisions are required. At the moment, such provisions receive low-level funding from sportscotland without input from any other public agency. We could be doing better on both issues and I look forward to resolving matters in the months ahead.

As someone who served on a mountain rescue team for the best part of two decades, I am aware that not all mountain rescue team members have a radio handset. Will the First Minister undertake to ensure that, when the new frequency comes in, every member of every rescue team in Scotland will be properly equipped with a handset?

From what he has said, the First Minister is aware that the key problem is core funding. Will he acknowledge that we are receiving a magnificent service on the cheap from a group of people who, according to health and safety rules, should be equipped more frequently with new ropes, harnesses and other equipment? That aspect in particular increases the need for a proper level of budgeting for our rescue teams. Will he provide that level of support to our rescue teams in Scotland?

I am pleased that Mr Ewing takes the matter seriously. I hope that he will criticise his party—the Scottish National Party—for criticising the fact that I visited the Cairngorms and spoke to the rescue team to find out about the subject. Serious issues need to be addressed and the best way of doing so is to talk to the rescue teams. As a result, we now have a better picture of what is involved—

We did not criticise the First Minister.

I am afraid that that is simply not true. Yesterday, the SNP issued a statement condemning the fact that I visited Aviemore on Sunday and made an announcement. The mountain rescue teams have welcomed the announcement, which is good for Scotland. If I have to go to Aviemore to make such announcements, I am very happy to do so.

Before I move to the business motion, I should advise members that the Presiding Officers consider it likely that decision time may take place substantially earlier than 5 o'clock. Everyone should be forewarned.