Business Motion
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S2M-720, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, which sets out a revised business programme, and an amendment to that motion.
It is somewhat unusual for there to be an amendment to a business motion, so I will explain how the procedure will work. The standing orders state that there can be only one speaker for and one speaker against a business motion and any amendment to that motion. Today there will be two speakers; no one else may contribute to the debate. In accordance with rule 8.11.3 of the standing orders, each speaker will be permitted to speak for a maximum of five minutes.
I call Patricia Ferguson to move motion S2M-720.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business—
Wednesday 17 December 2003
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Ministerial Statement
followed by Finance Committee Debate on Stage 2 of the 2004-05 Budget Process
followed by Financial Resolution in respect of Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine Railway and Linked Improvements Bill
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
Thursday 18 December 2003
9.30 am Parliamentary Bureau Motion
followed by Stage 3 of the Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill
12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.30 pm Question Time
3.10 pm Conclusion of Stage 3 of the Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
Wednesday 7 January 2004
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Stage 1 Debate on the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
Thursday 8 January 2004
9.30 am Executive Business
12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.30 pm Question Time
3.10 pm Executive Business
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions.—[Patricia Ferguson.]
In the past couple of weeks, members have been denied the opportunity to hear a ministerial statement on the impact of Blunkett's proposed changes to asylum legislation and to debate the intergovernmental conference and the proposed new European constitution. However, a 30-minute period for a ministerial statement has been built into next week's business programme. It will be interesting to discover whether the Executive is intent on using that time to make a statement of significance to the people of Scotland. I hope that that is the case and if it is, we will be the first to say, "Well done, but about time too."
During the week after the recess, there is time in the morning and afternoon of Thursday 8 January that has not been allocated. The SNP wants to see the Parliament debate the cumulative effect of the many changes that are taking place in the national health service in Scotland, their impact on services and whether the Executive has adopted and put in place an appropriate strategic overview. The changes include the new deal for junior doctors, new consultants' contracts, new general practitioners' contracts, the European working time directive, acute service reviews and a framework for maternity services. All those changes will have an impact on staffing levels and, in particular, on the amount of time that doctors can spend with patients.
There are real fears about potential rationing of services, with health care professionals making decisions on what they can do with the increasingly limited services at their disposal, rather than doing what is best for the patient. Those fears are compounded by concerns over the impact of additional drugs costs. There are also worries that centralisation, driven by recruitment needs, will lead to black holes in the provision of health services, with patients having to travel further and further to access services, leading inevitably to a postcode lottery of care services.
Equality of access to services was supposed to be a central plank of the Executive's ethos on the health service. That ethos is in severe danger of being undermined because no obvious strategic overview is being undertaken to deal with it.
We had a motionless debate in September on rising to the challenge of improving Scotland's health, but we need a serious national debate, led by the Parliament, on where our health service is going.
In The Herald on Monday, the first paragraph said:
"Patients in almost every region of Scotland are facing longer journeys for treatment as new laws on doctors and consultants' working hours shut hospital services."
A Labour MSP said:
"We are creating a crisis all over Scotland."
Duncan McNeil, who is a member of the Health Committee, said:
"We are not dealing with a series of local difficulties here. It is crisis management right across Scotland and we really need to get beyond that."
We agree with him—we need to get beyond that and have a national debate. The space for that debate is available in the week after we come back from recess.
Is the Executive brave enough to initiate a serious national debate and to have its management of Scotland's health service scrutinised? Or will Labour, and its Liberal poodles, continue to hide behind the skirts of the mundane and avoid debating the real issues that affect the people of Scotland? I ask the Parliament to support my amendment to the business motion so that we can begin that national debate in Scotland on the future of our health service.
I move amendment S2M-720.1, to leave out "Executive Business"—under "Thursday 8 January 2004" and after "9.30 am"—and insert:
"Debate on Future of Health Service in Scotland."
From the Labour Party's perspective—I feel free to speak on behalf of my colleagues in the Liberal Democrats, too—it is a bit rich for the SNP to try to lecture us about our commitment to health. The two Executive parties are committed to improving health—not only the health of the health service itself, but the health of our people in Scotland. That is why I hope that we will soon pass the first of two NHS bills that have been introduced in this session of the Parliament. In their own way, those two bills will make a difference to the overall performance of the health service and to its capacity to deliver to the people we represent.
Mr Crawford referred to one debate on the NHS that the Executive had initiated since May. In fact, we have had four Executive debates on health since May. I took the opportunity to find out how many debates the SNP has had on health since May. Members will be surprised to learn that, of the four debates that the SNP has had since May, not one has been on the health service. [Interruption.]
Order.
It gets worse. Of those four debates, not one was even about things that the Executive has responsibility for. Every one of those debates was on issues that are reserved to Westminster. For the SNP to say that we are not representing the people of Scotland, and that we are not discussing the issues that matter to the people of Scotland, is really a bit of a cheek.
Like many members in the chamber this afternoon, I was interested to see the emerging coalition of the Conservatives and the SNP. Perhaps the SNP can take a leaf out of the Tories' book. In their time tomorrow, the Tories have scheduled a debate on issues that matter in Scotland. They have scheduled a debate on issues concerning health and public services. That is what an Opposition should do. Perhaps the SNP needs to learn that. However, I urge the Conservatives not to think that my enthusiasm for their debates is prevalent.
It is important to recognise—and I think that Parliament recognises—the right of each party in the chamber to determine its own business, even when we think that that choice of business is misguided. We would not attempt to interfere in the business programme of the SNP, the Conservatives or any other party. If a party wishes to discuss reserved matters in its own time, that is up to that party.
I do not think that lodging an amendment without giving notice—as has been done this afternoon—is the way in which a serious Opposition should conduct itself. The SNP has never done that in the past, and I wonder what has changed.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I might be mistaken, but I do not seem to have a copy of the amendment on which we will be asked to vote.
It was announced from the chair earlier this afternoon that the amendment was available in the Scottish Parliament information centre. I do not think that there is much that I can do about it at this point, I am afraid.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Given the precedent that has been set by the SNP today, would it be in order for me to lodge an amendment to amend the Opposition's choice of debate on its days? If it is in order to lodge such amendments, does that not contravene the consultative steering group principles, which allocate time across the parties and allow the Opposition to decide for itself what it wants to debate?
It is a matter for the Parliamentary Bureau to propose a business programme to the Parliament. Any member can oppose a business motion.
The question is, that amendment S2M-720.1, in the name of Bruce Crawford, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
No.
There will be a division.
For
Byrne, Ms Rosemary (South of Scotland) (SSP)
Canavan, Dennis (Falkirk West)
Crawford, Bruce (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perth) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP)
Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Fox, Colin (Lothians) (SSP)
Gibson, Rob (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (South of Scotland) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Lothians) (SNP)
Leckie, Carolyn (Central Scotland) (SSP)
Lochhead, Richard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Mr Kenny (Lothians) (SNP)
Martin, Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP)
Marwick, Tricia (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Mather, Jim (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Maxwell, Mr Stewart (West of Scotland) (SNP)
McFee, Mr Bruce (West of Scotland) (SNP)
Morgan, Alasdair (South of Scotland) (SNP)
Neil, Alex (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee East) (SNP)
Sheridan, Tommy (Glasgow) (SSP)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow) (SNP)
Swinney, Mr John (North Tayside) (SNP)
Turner, Dr Jean (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Ind)
Welsh, Mr Andrew (Angus) (SNP)
White, Ms Sandra (Glasgow) (SNP)
Against
Alexander, Ms Wendy (Paisley North) (Lab)
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Barrie, Scott (Dunfermline West) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Edinburgh Central) (Lab)
Brankin, Rhona (Midlothian) (Lab)
Brocklebank, Mr Ted (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Brown, Robert (Glasgow) (LD)
Butler, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Craigie, Cathie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab)
Curran, Ms Margaret (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab)
Davidson, Mr David (North East Scotland) (Con)
Deacon, Susan (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab)
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James (Lothians) (Con)
Eadie, Helen (Dunfermline East) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallie, Phil (South of Scotland) (Con)
Gillon, Karen (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Glen, Marlyn (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Godman, Trish (West Renfrewshire) (Lab)
Goldie, Miss Annabel (West of Scotland) (Con)
Gorrie, Donald (Central Scotland) (LD)
Henry, Hugh (Paisley South) (Lab)
Home Robertson, Mr John (East Lothian) (Lab)
Hughes, Janis (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)
Jackson, Dr Sylvia (Stirling) (Lab)
Jackson, Gordon (Glasgow Govan) (Lab)
Jamieson, Cathy (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab)
Jamieson, Margaret (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Livingstone, Marilyn (Kirkcaldy) (Lab)
Lyon, George (Argyll and Bute) (LD)
Macdonald, Lewis (Aberdeen Central) (Lab)
Macintosh, Mr Kenneth (Eastwood) (Lab)
Maclean, Kate (Dundee West) (Lab)
Macmillan, Maureen (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)
May, Christine (Central Fife) (Lab)
McAveety, Mr Frank (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab)
McCabe, Mr Tom (Hamilton South) (Lab)
McConnell, Mr Jack (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
McGrigor, Mr Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
McLetchie, David (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
McMahon, Michael (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab)
McNeil, Mr Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab)
McNulty, Des (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab)
Milne, Mrs Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Monteith, Mr Brian (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Morrison, Mr Alasdair (Western Isles) (Lab)
Muldoon, Bristow (Livingston) (Lab)
Mulligan, Mrs Mary (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Mundell, David (South of Scotland) (Con)
Munro, John Farquhar (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD)
Murray, Dr Elaine (Dumfries) (Lab)
Oldfather, Irene (Cunninghame South) (Lab)
Peacock, Peter (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Peattie, Cathy (Falkirk East) (Lab)
Pringle, Mike (Edinburgh South) (LD)
Purvis, Jeremy (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
Radcliffe, Nora (Gordon) (LD)
Robson, Euan (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD)
Rumbles, Mike (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Scott, John (Ayr) (Con)
Scott, Tavish (Shetland) (LD)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Smith, Iain (North East Fife) (LD)
Smith, Margaret (Edinburgh West) (LD)
Stephen, Nicol (Aberdeen South) (LD)
Stone, Mr Jamie (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
Tosh, Murray (West of Scotland) (Con)
Wallace, Mr Jim (Orkney) (LD)
Watson, Mike (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Whitefield, Karen (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)
Wilson, Allan (Cunninghame North) (Lab)
Abstentions
Baird, Shiona (North East Scotland) (Green)
Ballance, Chris (South of Scotland) (Green)
Ballard, Mark (Lothians) (Green)
Harper, Robin (Lothians) (Green)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Ruskell, Mr Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Scott, Eleanor (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Swinburne, John (Central Scotland) (SSCUP)
The result of the division is: For 30, Against 81, Abstentions 8.
Amendment disagreed to.
The question is, that motion S2M-720, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
No.
There will be a division.
For
Alexander, Ms Wendy (Paisley North) (Lab)
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baird, Shiona (North East Scotland) (Green)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Ballance, Chris (South of Scotland) (Green)
Ballard, Mark (Lothians) (Green)
Barrie, Scott (Dunfermline West) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Edinburgh Central) (Lab)
Brankin, Rhona (Midlothian) (Lab)
Brocklebank, Mr Ted (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Brown, Robert (Glasgow) (LD)
Butler, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab)
Byrne, Ms Rosemary (South of Scotland) (SSP)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Craigie, Cathie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab)
Curran, Ms Margaret (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab)
Davidson, Mr David (North East Scotland) (Con)
Deacon, Susan (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab)
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James (Lothians) (Con)
Eadie, Helen (Dunfermline East) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallie, Phil (South of Scotland) (Con)
Gillon, Karen (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Glen, Marlyn (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Godman, Trish (West Renfrewshire) (Lab)
Goldie, Miss Annabel (West of Scotland) (Con)
Gorrie, Donald (Central Scotland) (LD)
Harper, Robin (Lothians) (Green)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Paisley South) (Lab)
Home Robertson, Mr John (East Lothian) (Lab)
Hughes, Janis (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)
Jackson, Dr Sylvia (Stirling) (Lab)
Jackson, Gordon (Glasgow Govan) (Lab)
Jamieson, Cathy (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab)
Jamieson, Margaret (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Livingstone, Marilyn (Kirkcaldy) (Lab)
Lyon, George (Argyll and Bute) (LD)
Macdonald, Lewis (Aberdeen Central) (Lab)
Macintosh, Mr Kenneth (Eastwood) (Lab)
Maclean, Kate (Dundee West) (Lab)
Macmillan, Maureen (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)
May, Christine (Central Fife) (Lab)
McAveety, Mr Frank (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab)
McCabe, Mr Tom (Hamilton South) (Lab)
McConnell, Mr Jack (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
McGrigor, Mr Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
McLetchie, David (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
McMahon, Michael (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab)
McNeil, Mr Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab)
McNulty, Des (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab)
Milne, Mrs Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Monteith, Mr Brian (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Morrison, Mr Alasdair (Western Isles) (Lab)
Muldoon, Bristow (Livingston) (Lab)
Mulligan, Mrs Mary (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Mundell, David (South of Scotland) (Con)
Munro, John Farquhar (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD)
Murray, Dr Elaine (Dumfries) (Lab)
Oldfather, Irene (Cunninghame South) (Lab)
Peacock, Peter (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Peattie, Cathy (Falkirk East) (Lab)
Pringle, Mike (Edinburgh South) (LD)
Purvis, Jeremy (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
Radcliffe, Nora (Gordon) (LD)
Robson, Euan (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD)
Rumbles, Mike (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
Ruskell, Mr Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Scott, Eleanor (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Scott, John (Ayr) (Con)
Scott, Tavish (Shetland) (LD)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Smith, Iain (North East Fife) (LD)
Smith, Margaret (Edinburgh West) (LD)
Stephen, Nicol (Aberdeen South) (LD)
Stone, Mr Jamie (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
Swinburne, John (Central Scotland) (SSCUP)
Tosh, Murray (West of Scotland) (Con)
Wallace, Mr Jim (Orkney) (LD)
Watson, Mike (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Whitefield, Karen (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)
Wilson, Allan (Cunninghame North) (Lab)
Against
Canavan, Dennis (Falkirk West)
Crawford, Bruce (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perth) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP)
Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (South of Scotland) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Lothians) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Mr Kenny (Lothians) (SNP)
Martin, Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP)
Marwick, Tricia (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Mather, Jim (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Maxwell, Mr Stewart (West of Scotland) (SNP)
McFee, Mr Bruce (West of Scotland) (SNP)
Morgan, Alasdair (South of Scotland) (SNP)
Neil, Alex (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee East) (SNP)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow) (SNP)
Swinney, Mr John (North Tayside) (SNP)
Welsh, Mr Andrew (Angus) (SNP)
White, Ms Sandra (Glasgow) (SNP)
Abstentions
Fox, Colin (Lothians) (SSP)
Leckie, Carolyn (Central Scotland) (SSP)
Sheridan, Tommy (Glasgow) (SSP)
Turner, Dr Jean (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Ind)
The result of the division is: For 90, Against 25, Abstentions 4.
Motion agreed to.
That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business—
Wednesday 17 December 2003
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Ministerial Statement
followed by Finance Committee Debate on Stage 2 of the 2004-05 Budget Process
followed by Financial Resolution in respect of Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine Railway and Linked Improvements Bill
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
Thursday 18 December 2003
9.30 am Parliamentary Bureau Motion
followed by Stage 3 of the Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill
12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.30 pm Question Time
3.10 pm Conclusion of Stage 3 of the Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
Wednesday 7 January 2004
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Stage 1 Debate on the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
Thursday 8 January 2004
9.30 am Executive Business
12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.30 pm Question Time
3.10 pm Executive Business
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members' Business
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions.