Plenary, 10 Jan 2002

Meeting date: Thursday, January 10, 2002

Official Report 701KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S1F-1532)

Issues of importance to Scotland.

This is perhaps one of the issues of importance to the people of Scotland. In order to alleviate the chaos faced by rail commuters, has the First Minister used his powers under section 208 of the Transport Act 2000?

I make it clear that the concern of all members should be with those passengers who are affected by the current rail dispute. Both Wendy Alexander and I have kept in regular contact with those involved in the dispute. It is right and proper that they accept responsibility for resolving the dispute and dealing with the matters at hand as quickly as possible.

It is quite clear that the First Minister has not got round to reading section 208 of the Transport Act 2000. Allow me to read it to him so that it is clear. It says that Scottish ministers may give the Strategic Rail Authority

"directions and guidance in relation to services for the carriage of passengers by rail which start and end in Scotland and are provided under a franchise agreement".

A franchise agreement exists with ScotRail. ScotRail clearly depends on drivers working their rest days, which puts passenger safety at some risk. ScotRail is now cutting services. Will the First Minister undertake to get on the phone to the Strategic Rail Authority and have it tell ScotRail to get our trains moving again?

The leader of the Scottish National Party makes a dangerous claim when he accuses ScotRail of endangering safety on the railways. Through the Strategic Rail Authority and the Strathclyde Passenger Transport Executive there is a franchise arrangement with ScotRail. It is right and proper that ScotRail and the trade unions involved resolve the dispute between themselves. They are responsible for the way in which the dispute has been created. Such industrial relations are shocking in the 21st century. The angry passengers of Scotland must see the dispute being resolved as quickly as possible.

The angry passengers of Scotland would like to see the First Minister of Scotland doing something to resolve the problem. Twenty-seven out of 35 rail lines in Scotland are affected and a quarter of rail services have been cancelled. Prices are going up, delays have increased by 140 per cent and the Scottish taxpayer is giving ScotRail £1.5 billion in public subsidy. Is it not time that we had value for money? The First Minister should get on the phone to tell the Strategic Rail Authority to get ScotRail to get our trains moving again.

I made it quite clear that I believe that that is exactly what ScotRail should be doing. It is important to compare policies. The Strategic Rail Authority would not even exist in the kind of Scotland that the SNP wants, where the railways would not be UK-wide.

Let us talk facts. The reality is that ScotRail is a private company that is in dispute with its trade unions. ScotRail needs to resolve that dispute. ScotRail and the trade unions involved in the negotiations this afternoon should complete those negotiations and get the dispute resolved. We should not try to resolve the dispute in the chamber, but we should encourage ScotRail and the trade unions to resolve it as quickly as possible.

The First Minister has power under the Transport Act 2000 to tell ScotRail to get the trains moving. We are giving ScotRail £1.5 billion in public subsidy. Will the First Minister act to resolve the issue by telling ScotRail to get our trains moving again?

I find it ridiculous that Mr Swinney thinks that we can tell ScotRail to get trains moving that do not have drivers. I know that the SNP lives in fantasy land, but trains without drivers are a fantasy too far. The dispute needs to be resolved. ScotRail and the trade unions need to get their act together and get the trains running in Scotland. The chamber should tell them to do so.

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Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues he plans to raise. (S1F-1527)

I will formally meet the Secretary of State for Scotland on Monday and we will discuss Scotland's economy and other issues.

I am sure that the Secretary of State for Scotland will be interested in the First Minister's explanation of why he apparently wants to take over part of her office. Once he has recovered from that subject, perhaps we could move on to education. I ask him about the newspaper reports this week that the Scottish Executive plans to scrap the system of independent inspection of our schools by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education. That system is essential if we want to raise standards, as there would be a clear conflict of interests if local authorities were responsible for inspecting their own schools.

I was interested in the answer that Cathy Jamieson gave to Ian Jenkins in question time. If I understood her correctly, she said that there is a continuing role for Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education, but she did not say that that continuing role would be the function that it currently has of direct independent inspection of our schools. In the light of that answer, could the First Minister give us a categorical assurance that there is no plan to change the current role of HMIE and that such a plan has not been discussed by him either with individual ministers or in the Cabinet?

Yes.

That is interesting; it has not been discussed. I put it to the First Minister, just so that we are absolutely clear on this matter, that he said in response to my question that the issue has not been discussed with individual ministers or in the Cabinet. That is not the whole substance of the charge that is made in the newspaper reports, however. The charge in the reports is that the issue has been discussed by Mr McConnell's kitchen Cabinet, not his rubber-stamp Cabinet.

I put to him The Scotsman report this morning—[Interruption.] It is a newspaper that has remarkably accurate education stories, which stems largely from the time when the First Minister was Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs. It will be interesting to compare the track record.

To put it on the record, I should add that the report states:

"the plan was discussed in detail by Mr McConnell and"

an

"inner circle and … he failed to inform the new education minister about these discussions when she took over the brief."

I ask him again: is there any truth in that statement?

I will be very clear. The Scotsman was told before it printed the first story, never mind the second one, that the story was not true. Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education in Scotland has a new remit to get its cycle of inspections in line with the time scale in which children go through either primary school or secondary school. It is important that we ensure that that cycle is in place so that every primary school is inspected on a seven-year cycle and every secondary school is inspected on a six-year cycle, unlike what happened before—when I was Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs, I discovered that some schools had not been inspected since 1983, which was ridiculous. We must get the inspections into the right cycle and ensure that our local authorities exercise a day-after-day, week-after-week and year-after-year quality control function in relation to their schools. That is important and will remain the case.

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Individual Learning Accounts

To ask the First Minister what the current position is regarding the closure of individual learning accounts. (S1F-1525)

The individual learning account scheme was closed on 20 December. The Executive will introduce a new scheme, which will take the best from the old programme while addressing the concerns that have been raised. In the meantime, people who are already learning will continue to do so and those who enrolled before the scheme's closure will be able to proceed if their learning starts before the end of this month.

All 245,000 account holders have been informed directly of the decision to close the scheme, as have members of the Scottish Parliament and learning providers. Learning providers will be paid for valid claims when the ILA member was enrolled by 20 December and the learning will have commenced by 31 January.

I thank the First Minister for that reply. First, can he clarify the reasons for closing the ILAs? Was it done primarily because of fraud, because the money ran out or for some other reason that we do not know about? Secondly, can he tell us when the new system will be put in place, what criteria will be used and whether there will be carryover to a new ILA for those who have an existing ILA?

The second and third questions will be answered in due course. However, the important thing just now is to ensure that not only those who have an ILA but those who have started learning by using their ILA can continue with that learning. I have said that we will do that. The system was closed down because of the potential for fraud. It was important that that closure happened.

Would it not be appropriate to ensure that, to facilitate the continued operation of ILAs, rigorous investigation is made of the allegations of fraud? Is the First Minister not apprehensive that, as the ILAs were constructed by primary legislation in this Parliament, there is a danger—I think—of legal challenge to the Executive for failing to provide ILAs to applicants?

Many people who have an ILA have not yet begun, or signed up for, a course of learning. It is important that those who have committed themselves to a course of learning can continue with that. We have given that guarantee. It is also important that we investigate any allegations or suspicions about the system. We will do that before we complete payments to any of the learning providers who are claiming payments at the moment. We want to check that those payments are properly due before they are fulfilled.

Will the First Minister give an assurance that the Executive remains committed to keeping learners at the centre of learning? Will he look constructively, with the Minister for Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning, at what measures can be taken—particularly to support collective learning through bodies such as the trade union learning fund and to support workplace learning—to place learners at the centre of the Executive's lifelong learning strategy?

Yes, we will. One of the things that we have done proudly over the past two years is to ensure that those kinds of opportunities begin to exist and develop. In Scotland today we have a large number of adults who require to improve their skills and their availability and competitive position in the local marketplace.

It is important that, when people have perhaps had bad experiences of schools, colleges or learning environments in the past, we offer a variety of different routes into developing new skills. I think that we can do that. I can see in my own home constituency of Motherwell and Wishaw the impact that such learning is having not just through the local college, but through other learning providers. I hope that we can ensure that that happens elsewhere in Scotland.

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Tourist Attractions (Euro)

To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Executive is taking to ensure that all major tourist attractions accept the euro. (S1F-1530)

The Executive supports the steps that have been taken by Scotland Europa, in conjunction with the UK Treasury, to provide advice and raise awareness of the need for all businesses, including those in the tourist industry, to be suitably prepared for the introduction of the euro.

Of course, the decision whether to accept the euro is a commercial one for the businesses concerned. However, we have ensured, with the key organisations that cover the range of interests across the business community, that up-to-date advice and information are available to help businesses with their preparations.

Is the First Minister aware that, of Edinburgh's top 10 paid tourist attractions, only one is so far accepting euro notes and coins? Does he agree that if the Tower of London, Hampton Court Palace and Chester zoo can accept the euro, so should Edinburgh Castle, Holyrood House and Edinburgh zoo? Will he join me in lobbying the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body to ensure that the Scottish Parliament does not continue to lag behind and that its shop, which attracts a considerable number of tourists, accepts the euro, rather than turning it away, as it has been doing in the past week?

The prospect of a debate on whether the Parliament shop should accept the euro is enticing. It might lead to the Conservatives boycotting the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body in the same way as they boycott the Holyrood progress group. I hope that that would not be the case.

I understand that the decisions that have been taken in Scotland's major tourist attractions—the majority of which are not planning to take euro cash this summer—were made following market research on whether accepting the euro would be a viable investment at this time. This morning, I asked Historic Scotland to keep that position under review. It will do that and we will receive regular reports on the progress that is being made.

Will the First Minister also ask Historic Scotland to keep under review the source of revenue from a much bigger market than euroland? Will our major tourist attractions please accept the US dollar also?

I am unaware of any political party in the UK—although there may be one somewhere—that proposes that Scotland's currency should become the dollar, but I am aware of at least the medium-term potential for the euro to become the currency of Scotland and the UK. We are involved in a single market with the countries that have adopted the euro. The sensible point has been made that our shops, attractions and businesses should be able at least to trade in euros when appropriate. That makes much sense.

I am sure that Scotland's businesses have taken heart from the First Minister's assurance that whether to accept any currency other than legal tender and what rate to charge for that are commercial decisions for businesses.

I will take the First Minister further along the Historic Scotland route. He talked about the instructions that he has given the body. Does Historic Scotland receive guidance from the First Minister and his team, or is it a free-standing body that can make its own decisions, with a board that is accountable in the normal manner? In the past year, I have received several representations from people who work for the organisation. In how much detail does the First Minister instruct Historic Scotland, whether on the euro or other matters?

I made it clear in my first answer that, in my conversation with Historic Scotland this morning, I asked it to keep the matter under review. It agreed to do so. That is the right relationship between the organisation and us.

Does the First Minister agree that the price transparency that will accompany the euro will be good for tourists and consumers throughout Europe? Does he join me in commending the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities for its work on promoting an information campaign in the public sector and in condemning the scaremongers, including Conservative members, who refuse to conduct the debate on the basis of the facts?

I am always happy to condemn scaremongers—and sometimes Tories. The topic is serious. COSLA has acted responsibly in running that information campaign. It is vital that people know of the euro's potential impact on Scotland and the UK and of the need to prepare now to ensure that we have maximum trading opportunities with our main trading partners throughout the euro zone. That is an important part of the preparations that we should make to ensure that our economy survives the challenges of this and future years.

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Economy (West Lothian)

To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Executive is taking to stimulate the West Lothian economy. (S1F-1536)

The job losses at Motorola and NEC Semiconductors are, of course, a blow to the local economy, but West Lothian has shown its resilience in the past. The skills of the work force together with action that is being taken by the Executive and other public bodies mean that the area is well placed to share in future economic growth. West Lothian economic partnership has drawn up an action plan to achieve that. In December, the Executive announced that it was making £6 million available to help to implement that plan.

I welcome the £6 million that has been made available to West Lothian economic partnership and I recognise that the precise use of that money has yet to be finalised between the Executive and the partnership. Does the First Minister agree that, in addition to the economic development resources that have been made available, the infrastructure of West Lothian needs to be developed? The transport infrastructure could be developed by the expansion and extension of the Bathgate rail line and the communications infrastructure could be developed by the introduction of services such as broadband technology.

I agree that both those matters are important in West Lothian, as they are elsewhere in Scotland. A key lesson to be learned from the events of the past year in West Lothian is that the job market of central Scotland has become more flexible and involves more travel. Many people from Lanarkshire and areas even further west travel to West Lothian every day to work. People also travel there from Fife.

Jim Leishman.

Some travel more successfully than others.

It is important to recognise that the impact of some of the closures and other developments are spread more widely than the immediate West Lothian area. The innovative local council leadership in West Lothian is driving forward progressive improvements for the local population. Further private sector broadband and transport infrastructure improvements in West Lothian are of particular importance.