Visits to Councils
The first report is from Shetland Islands Council; Johann Lamont is the reporter. Kenny Gibson, Colin Campbell and I were also on the visit, but I do not remember much about it. The people there were rather liberal with the whisky.
I have total recall.
Of course.
Calvinist.
The delay in reporting back on the visit is entirely my fault. It has been suggested that it would be interesting to compare the situation in Shetland with that in the Western Isles, and we may want to do that as I go on.
The councillors and officials that we met were very positive about the meeting and felt that it was useful. That accords with the response that we have received elsewhere in the country. The report includes their responses to individual questions, the detailed outline of their structures and some additional comments of my own.
We must always be aware of the context of the Shetland Islands—both the distance from the mainland and the differences between the islands. From its consultations locally, the council is aware that the centre is sometimes perceived as getting a great deal more than the peripheral islands. That reflects some of the tensions between rural and urban areas that exist in Scotland as a whole. Managing travel and transport within the islands places a significant burden on the authority.
The situation in the Shetland Islands also needs to be seen in the context of the oil industry, both past and present. Because of the money that it generates, community facilities are available in Shetland that would not be available in equivalent rural or island communities in Scotland. Some of the facilities are substantial. However, as the oil industry has moved on, that has had an impact on small communities. In some areas, houses were built to accommodate a larger number of workers, but when those workers leave the houses are still there, which affects the housing market and a range of other issues.
During my visit to Sullom Voe, I was struck by the extent to which the industry still has to wrestle with the elements. That challenges the idea that we can run our industry and economy on a virtual basis, through e-mail. We need to be conscious that people will still have to lay pipes on the sea bed.
In contrast with that more elemental nature, I had my first opportunity to teleconference in a small community. In Shetland, teleconferencing and modern technology have been used to sustain the community, which has been affected by the oil industry. We teleconferenced with Unst. Perhaps one of the other members who were there would like to expand on the impact of Ministry of Defence decisions in Unst.
Themes were consistently raised with us, such as the desire for an independent review of local authority finance and general opposition to proportional representation but, again, the emphasis was on close links to disparate communities. We have heard that view in rural areas, where first past the post is seen as the best way of representing small and distinct communities within large rural areas. There is opposition to directly elected leaders. There were concerns about ring fencing, such as that inappropriate amounts of money would be available, given the nature of such communities.
Council representatives also talked about the problems of the increasing amount of paperwork and administration in relation to the bidding system and best value, the pursuit of which they felt was creating work that was not productive and so did not represent best value. They used the example of the amount of time and energy that teachers were expected to use to clarify how much better their new systems were, which increased their work load.
An interesting feature, which they highlighted, is that although they are a small island community of approximately 20,000 inhabitants, they still have to go through the same hoops as larger authorities with significantly larger populations, so a disproportionate amount of work is spent on fulfilling some obligations.
The visit was an interesting contrast with that to Western Isles. Although some of the issues were similar, we found Shetland very Lerwick-centred and that the periphery of the islands is suffering for a variety of reasons. The fact that it costs £340 for a return flight from Glasgow militates against the development of the islands' economy. Just as with the western isles, communication with the mainland has to be addressed if the islands are to develop further.
There appeared to be a big divide between the administration and the opposition. I found that interesting. Of 22 councillors, we met the 12 who are administration councillors. The opposition was not invited to meet us. The opposition is 10 independents, and the administration is eight Liberals and four independents. There seemed to be a bit of tension between those two groups.
What councillors said about PR was interesting. It is a Liberal-dominated council—certainly the Liberals seemed to pull the strings. They talked about councillors having good links with their communities, but it seemed that people often do not have much choice—about a third of the councillors were elected unopposed. Where there was competition for seats, just as in Western Isles, most of the sitting councillors lost their seats. It appears that many people are unhappy with their elected representatives.
Our view of the council was positive; it seemed dynamic and forward thinking, yet when I spoke to fishermen, taxi drivers and other members of the public, some of them did not share that view. If there is not a communications gap between the public and the council, there is at least suspicion about how the council is run. On the positive side, the council has its eye on the ball on innovation: it wants to look at new ideas. There was some concern about how the new executive is being appointed, which gave me cause for concern, but, generally speaking, it seems a prosperous area—the oil money may have something to do with that—and the council is doing what it can to ensure that it remains prosperous.
The community that we visited, which is about 25 miles north of Lerwick, is an area in which the council and the local community want to work in partnership to attract people. They seem to be trying to galvanise as many people in the community as possible to participate in ensuring that the community works together.
I found the teleconferencing useful. They talked about it in Western Isles, but they are not as far forward with it as they are in Shetland. They also seem to have invested money in recreation wisely—there are something like nine sports centres and swimming pools in the islands. They have developed that area well.
I found the visit interesting. We would want to go back to the area to see how it develops. It must be said that the administration is fairly new. There was a sea change after the elections in May, and it may take a wee while for the structures to settle down before we can see how they are working. However, I am concerned about how involved the opposition is in the decision-making process.
As with Johann Lamont, this was my first use of videoconferencing.
I spoke with a couple of community activists in Unst. There are difficulties that arise from the draw-down of the Ministry of Defence facility there and they are looking for as much help as they can get. They highlighted the fact that the transport difficulties there are even worse than they are in the western isles. We were two ferry rides away from Unst. That is a deterrent to trade and tourism in the area.
In an informal discussion, someone said that there are difficulties with mainland legislation—made with the best will in the world for all our best interests—when it is applied to some of these areas. For example, if someone knocks down a house in Unst, they have to take the entire house on lorries on two ferry journeys to dump it in the landfill site near Lerwick. I share the sense of absurdity at such legislation applying in that way. There is probably a case for different—not more lax—legislation for such areas, where at present unnecessary burdens are put on communities that are in straitened circumstances.
I certainly enjoyed the visit. They gave us the interesting example of the Braer incident and how it related to the power of general competence. After the Braer incident, they had to have an impact assessment, which was funded neither by insurance nor by the Scottish Office. They think that if the council had had the power of general competence, it could have dealt with the matter in a different, less costly, way. I understand why the council is saying no to proportional representation: there are approximately 800 constituents per constituency and McIntosh made it clear that if we do go to a system of PR, it will be different for different parts of Scotland.
It was interesting to see that the council is trying to encourage young people to play more of a role in the community. Council representatives said that they are giving support through cultural and musical heritage, which is good, because in those islands, as in the western isles and elsewhere, young people should be encouraged to stay and become more involved in their culture.
Like Kenny Gibson, I was surprised that there are nine sports centres and swimming pools, but when I thought about it I thought, so what? That is good. I also think that if we talk to taxi drivers and other people anywhere they will complain about the council. They just like to do that. As politicians, we should know that if we are going to get a complaint, it will be directed towards us. All in all, it was an interesting visit and, like Kenny, I would like to go back, because it is a new council and once it is more settled in it may have different things to say.
I wish to say something on what Kenny Gibson picked up anecdotally. To be fair to the council, one of the themes it raised is its awareness, from consulting local people, that there are anxieties about how services are being delivered. It hopes to tap in to the forum system and the community council structure to address that. The election gave people an opportunity to express a view on what had gone on before.
To be fair to the council, the views that were expressed by the people I spoke to were directed more at its predecessor. The visit took place only about six months after the May 1999 elections, so what we heard was a hangover from before then. There seems to be a residue of bad feeling about the previous administration, which has carried over to this one.
Johann Lamont is right: we could go anywhere and people would criticise the council—but these were specific points. It was interesting to consider the contrast between what was being said by members of the public and what was being said by the administration.
Is the council saying that there are difficulties with the ring fencing and that there is a need for more flexibility in terms of the transport system and the rurality of the area?
There is a feeling that it takes time to get consultation working. Perhaps the council is not doing it in the right way. Is that the flavour of what it was saying about consultation? That concern has appeared before but perhaps not quite as strongly.
Can you give us an overview of the committee structure in operation?
It is all in the paper.
I know, but it looks complex. Can someone describe it in simple terms?
I recollect that there are three committees. Technically, everyone is entitled to be on every committee. The committees are underpinned by forums. The idea is that they derive information from local communities and feed it into the committees. The chairs of the committees are all members of the ruling administration. I think that there is a chairs committee, which effectively operates as an executive.
Having forums feeding into committees is quite different from what we have seen before, is it not?
Yes.
That is interesting. Can you say something about the consultation? It appears that the process needs to be worked at, because the council is not happy with it.
The council is considering when the forums should meet. It is going to monitor who comes along, who contributes and so on. I think it is Shetland where it is felt that the structure allows the council to revisit the debate at every level: the forum, the committee and the executive. It is conscious that it has to decide whether to allow a discussion that has already taken place to be revisited. My impression is that it is trying something new and that it needs to monitor progress carefully.
Kenny is right—there has been such a change in the council that in a sense it is only six months old. It is still finding its way.
The council is trying to draw a distinction between its policy development role and delegation to officers of the authority to implement policy.
It is interesting that two of the main drivers behind the council are former directors of social work and education. They are very up to date with many of the Executive's ideas.
We now move on to the Western Isles Council visit by Colin Campbell, Kenny Gibson, Johann Lamont and me. If the plane had fallen out of the sky, there would have been two by-elections—that is one form of proportional representation that we do not want. Kenny is the reporter for that visit.
The council is in favour of a power of general competence. The Berneray and Eriskay causeway project took 18 months to secure. The council felt that it would not have had to go through so many hoops if it had had a power of general competence.
The council strongly favours an independent review of finance. We got somewhat different views on hypothecation from councillors and officers. Councillors took the view that hypothecated funding removes the council's responsibility to determine its own priorities. They certainly choose to be more flexible about how they spend resources allocated under grant-aided expenditure. They said that hypothecation is a way of imposing priorities. As has already been said with regard to Shetland, it is a case of one size fits all. Ideas relating to hypothecation tend to focus on west, central or urban Scotland. With regard to priorities, rural Scotland and the islands are far down the list.
However, the director of social work said that in some ways he favours hypothecation, because if funds are not hypothecated for social work training and so on, money might not be spent on such vital but less sexy areas. Everyone said that if hypothecation were to take place, they hoped that the money would follow it, rather than being hypothecated out of existing budgets.
There does not appear to be much of a structure for scrutiny. There is not really an administration group at all—the Labour and Scottish National party groups do not act as political party groups—and although councillors may be elected under the Labour or Scottish National party ticket, they all act as independents. There is no group, even within the independents, that operates as an administration. From the well organised west of Scotland perspective it seems fairly anarchic, but there is certainly a view that it works well. They oppose an executive system.
The officers take a different view, however. They are frustrated that strategic decisions might not be implemented. Even if a committee takes a decision, the same people are on the full council and a decision can be overturned following pressure from wards. That makes it more difficult to take a strategic overview. However, the Berneray and Eriskay causeway project is an example of everyone pulling together on a project that helps the isles overall.
The council's views on PR are similar to those in Shetland. It feels that multi-member wards would be difficult to operate in island areas and that if PR were implemented, the single transferable vote would be the best of a bad bunch. To a certain extent, it did not understand exactly how the system would work, so that was explained.
As in Shetland, there has been a cull of councillors: 17 of the 31 councillors are new. About eight wards were uncontested, so if there was a multi-member system, there would be more competition. With regard to question 5, the council wants more flexibility in the size of the electorate. Yet again, everything is directed towards Stornoway. I asked whether local repair teams could be moved away from Stornoway so that local authority jobs can be spread more evenly throughout the island chain. That is being considered.
Curiously, when asked about their number, councillors said that 31 is about right. The officers took the view that 10 or 12 should probably be the maximum. That caused a bit of a wry smile from the MSPs. The officers find it hard to get decisions from a local authority of that size, given that there does not seem to be any real political structure.
The council said that meetings in Stornoway sometimes involve two overnight stays. It may not have considered rotating council meetings throughout the island chain so that, for example, it meets on Barra on one occasion and Stornoway the next. The council said that it is increasingly difficult for members with full-time jobs to get time off for council duties. Indeed, the Labour leader could not meet us because, although he works for a public company, he was not allowed time off. Like everybody else, the council opposes directly elected leaders.
There were other issues of specific interest. Unemployment is very high; employment is about 8 per cent less than anywhere else. The area has the highest death rate and the lowest birth rate in Scotland. It is important that the council considers other modes of inward investment; it should perhaps compare how peripheral areas in Scandinavia are addressing job creation. However, although it appears that 60 information technology jobs may be created, there is a downward trend that I hope that the local authority—and the Executive—will address directly.
The council wants the isles' special circumstances and peripheral nature to be taken into account. We also received a statement from the SNP group leader saying that he does not particularly want there to be full-time councillors, because that might not suit him. Perhaps he misread the facts: we are not trying to impose full-time councillors; it is just something that should be considered as an option.
The officers said that the departments in the council have not operated in a methodical, joined-up way. They are trying to address that. There is still a fair way to go, but they are trying to get away from the old business of empire building. They realise that those days are over and that they must work together. Those we met seem to have many ideas in common.
Officers talked about the tensions when they try to match funding from the Highlands and Islands special programme. The situation worries them. They were also quite vociferous about challenge funding. They feel that for the private finance initiative and public-private partnerships to be successful, land values need to be high, so they are at a disadvantage in relation to more prosperous areas of mainland Scotland. They also feel that the key priorities of Western Isles Council, such as the roads network, do not fit into current challenge funding priorities, which makes innovation difficult. We should remember that Western Isles has only 27,000 inhabitants, so putting in a challenge funding bid costs proportionately more of its budget than would be the case in, for example, Glasgow, which has 600,000 people. The officers feel that that is not being considered.
The officers feel that although the Executive is putting more into education, the money is for new initiatives. It is felt that there is not sufficient funding for adequate basic provision and that money is being allocated to the education budget to be spent
"whether it was needed or not".
As I have mentioned, the officers have different views about hypothecation, which they feel address the needs of urban areas rather than those of rural or island areas. They also indicated that core services are still "being squeezed". Angus Lamont, who is the brother of a famous member of this committee, talked about the fact that Scottish Homes' centrally determined priority of moving towards owner occupation did not fit in with local strategic objectives. Western Isles Council is committed to providing local authority rented accommodation.
Interestingly, people said that Western Isles is "over-democratised"—the costs of consultation and decision making are widespread. Because of the vibrant nature of community councils, officers feel that there are already adequate mechanisms for consultation and that increasing consultation is creating excessive bureaucracy. That was also commented on from the perspective of best value.
Kenny has mentioned the fact that we had some difficulty getting to and from full council meetings. We were told that the person from Barra loses three days out of his or her life when they have to come up for a one-day meeting.
Was that Colin Campbell?
No, it was not Colin Campbell. He is from Benbecula. He would have a similar problem, although his travel time would not be quite so lengthy.
We do not want to appear obsessed with teleconferencing, but it was mentioned there, too. The council is unable to hold full council meetings by means of teleconferencing, which is an issue that will have to be addressed somewhere down the line in legislation. The idea is not that every meeting, but a goodly proportion of meetings, be held via teleconferencing, particularly when the weather is bad, which can be for a fairly large part of the year. That would be one way to make the operation of the local council cheaper and to make it more inviting for people to become councillors, as people would not feel that they would have to take three days out of their life to go to a council meeting. The idea should be considered seriously.
I was a bit alarmed by the fact that the Labour leader could not get time off from his publicly owned firm to do his job. It is obvious that I do not want him to do it all that well but, in the spirit of true democracy, and given that he is working for a public company, without mentioning the company involved, it seems logical that he should get a transfer to a boat that goes in and out of Stornoway rather than one that goes in and out of Tarbert, Harris.
We paid a visit to a primary school at Laxdale. I have passed Laxdale school for a number of years on my annual visits to elderly relatives in Port of Ness and always thought it looked a really clatty dump. It looked like everything a school should not be and unlike an advertisement for the virtues of education. Western Isles Council has transformed its appearance inside and outside. The spirit of the place seemed inviting for the children and for the staff who work there. The council has done a good job; that was a particularly good visit.
I was going to declare an interest, but Kenny has effectively done that for me. The fact that the comments made by the director of housing were particularly scintillating and perceptive is evidence of a family trait.
The fact that the Labour leader is sometimes baulked in his ability to attend meetings does not in any way reduce his effectiveness. I am sure that he is doing a good job on behalf of my party.
I want to draw attention to a couple of points, one of which concerns the way in which the broader community relates to island communities. One of the points that was made to us is that it should be recognised that it is difficult for council members to make it to meetings on the mainland on Monday mornings—unless they travel on the Friday or Saturday. That is interesting. It is not much of a bother for organisations on the mainland to have a meeting at 11 o'clock on a Monday morning rather than at 9 o'clock, but it makes a difference to the level of participation.
The significant thing about Laxdale school is the way in which it manages to maintain Gaelic-medium and English-medium education together. The school gave the impression of being a very harmonious and positive place in which to learn.
We also visited a community alarm system. It is an interesting example of how communities can build on their strengths. One of the strengths of remote rural or island communities is neighbourliness and the fact that it is possible to contact somebody local by phone to say that a message has been received that somebody has fallen and can someone go and check on them. The system works extremely well and allows people to be sustained in their own communities rather than having to be brought away from remote areas. The phone system is also being used by people to make contact about bullying or when the council is closed or on holiday. The system is used for a range of issues, the most important of which is to keep elderly people in their communities. I was impressed.
The council brought to our attention the potential for new technology and IT in general to bring people back to and to refresh the local community. The same must be true in Shetland. We talked about the fact that young people still have to travel for work but that a register is being created of those who would come back to work in the islands if work were available. The virtual economy has massive potential to provide work. The amount of optimism in communities such as the western isles and Shetland should be greater now than at any other time in the past century. It is now possible to see people from all walks of life going back, staying in their communities and holding them together. The things we saw for children in school and for the elderly were encouraging.
Members have all said very positive things about the visit. I enjoyed our final visit to a home for the elderly. Every person we spoke to was 90 or 94.
I spoke to one person who was 100.
I was impressed—I thought, "This is the place to live." Everyone seemed to live to quite an age.
Colin was worried that he was not going to be let out.
The visit was positive. Glasgow has a system that allows people who are in trouble to phone in. As Johann said, in the western isles, that system has been broadened out to allow people to phone in about other issues, which is a good way of using the system.
The idea of IT must be very exciting. We should perhaps start by asking why council and committee meetings cannot be held using such technology. It was a very enjoyable visit. Are there any questions?
The Grianan centre was quite exotic; its phone lines were similar to those at Safe Leven in Pollok, which I was involved with many years ago. As Colin Campbell said, Laxdale Primary School was excellent. We saw the classrooms with young children in them. People seemed to be trying to preserve as much of the culture as possible. Neither the SNP nor Labour group leaders could speak Gaelic, which I thought was bizarre, as the majority of people in the islands speak Gaelic.
Were they not part of the generation that missed out?
I think so.
The council mentioned specifically, with regard to flying to the mainland on Fridays and Saturdays, that it cannot get to Convention of Scottish Local Authorities meetings on Mondays. The committee should take that up with COSLA on the council's behalf.
Teleconferencing is important. We examined that when Highland Council raised the matter with us and found that it would require a change in the law. As the law stands, everybody must be present at a committee or a council meeting. We should pursue that.
I was interested to learn that the council has made a list of 800 families who are keen to go back to the Western Isles. That is positive.
We will move on to the report on Clackmannanshire Council. Michael McMahon and Keith Harding were there; Michael is the reporter.
I will keep this brief, as I have two reports to give this afternoon.
The Clackmannanshire visit was interesting; it encapsulated many of the difficulties that we have been considering, yet it had a lot of positives. Clackmannanshire is a small authority, which is partly rural and partly urban. It has all the contrasts that we have been looking for. It also has transport problems, which councillors spent a lot of time highlighting.
I have had difficulty in getting evidence on the power of general competence. The authorities that I have visited have said, "We cannot prove it, but trust us, we need it." Clackmannanshire Council, however, gave a detailed account of why it needs that power; a synopsis of that account is included in the report. The council also used the "even if we cannot prove it, trust us" argument, but it made a lot of effort to show how a power of general competence would be useful to local authorities.
Clackmannanshire is a small authority. East Renfrewshire—also a small authority—argued that the cabinet system was useful, but Clackmannanshire rejected that system. Clackmannanshire has a simple structure with three committees, which meet on a six-week cycle. That is an effective system. Learning and leisure are combined and the cross-cutting issues are handled in that way. The officers found it helpful to work in that way. The councillors were happy with the system and did not believe that a cabinet system would benefit them—they felt that it would detract from the way in which the system worked as it would give too much power to a small group. At the moment, all councillors are involved and have a good grasp of what the authority is about.
Clackmannanshire—as an SNP authority—had interesting views on the electoral system. It was not greatly opposed to the single transferable vote, but preferred the alternative vote to STV. It thought that there could be difficulties with changes to the voting system. It opposed a list system; given the size of the authority, it was felt that having a proportion of councillors who were directly elected to represent wards and others who were elected on a list would be problematic. It was also felt that STV would cause problems, so if there were to be change, AV would be the preferred system.
The council's presentation focused on transport. It is the only authority that does not have a rail link, the lack of which causes problems. There are many isolated communities that are not served by buses. People rely heavily on roads, yet the roads infrastructure is especially bad. Clackmannanshire has gridlock twice a day; that is intolerable in comparison to other places. Given the small size of the area and the volume of traffic that goes through it, transport is a particular problem. The council gave a detailed account of the difficulties that it faces and said it hoped that the Scottish Parliament could help it to overcome those difficulties, because that would be vital to bringing jobs to local communities. It was interesting to hear about that.
I do not want to make a party-political point, but in the afternoon we went to the Alloa centre—a terrific initiative, of which the authority is rightly proud—which is on the site of a former school. The previous administration wanted to close the school, which was half-empty, and to develop the new project, but the opposition campaigned against closure. The political complexion of the council changed at the election and the new administration now holds up the centre as a shining example of best practice.
One half of the former school is a day care centre that aims to encourage independent living for people with special needs. It offers art and physical education classes and teaches people how to work in kitchens, use washing machines and so on. The other part of the building has been given over to the Benefits Agency, so there is a direct link between the physical and financial means that people need to support themselves. The centre is a good example of how different departments and agencies can work together to support people in the communities. It is a great example of innovation in local government, yet it was opposed for political reasons before it got to its present stage. That should be a lesson to us all. We should always consider the bigger picture.
It was a worthwhile visit. Clackmannanshire Council has much to be proud of, but also has many problems, which have come out in the report.
I thank Irene Fleming, who came to Clackmannanshire with us. She is not usually a clerk to this committee, but came along because everyone else had swanned off to the Western Isles. She produced an especially good report.
Clackmannanshire has recently moved to a committee structure. The council, which had 12 members, previously met every three weeks.
The whole council?
Yes. The council did not have a committee structure, so the 12-member council had to discuss everything; that was unwieldy.
The number of councillors has increased to 18 and there is a committee structure, which appears to be bedding down well.
Clackmannanshire is one of the sites at which the Scottish Parliament met centuries ago. The council seems to be keen on the Parliament moving there—I said that that was unlikely, but that perhaps a committee could visit.
It is good that the SNP administration has enhanced and improved the workings of the Alloa centre.
On proportional representation, if STV were used, the number of councillors for each party would be the same as it is now. The SNP got one vote more than the Labour party at the council elections—it was 10,442 to 10,441 if my memory serves me well.
That is quite conclusive
Can you get to the point?
It is a shame that more members of the council were not there, apart from the two whom you met. I have spoken directly to the council leader about AV. I said that, if there were a 5 per cent swing to the SNP in Clackmannan, the SNP would win 17 out of 18 wards. However, if there were a 5 per cent swing to Labour, it would go the other way. An AV system would create a level of instability in that local authority, as it might result in oscillation from one party to the other.
I will not ask where you got that information from, because you might tell me, but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
It is quite impressive though.
No, it is not impressive at the moment.
I just wanted to touch on the thinking behind AV.
Did any of the councillors talk about their plans for a rail link and what they were doing to get it?
They need our help; it is as simple as that. They need a strategic review of the area's transport system. They are working hard and they have a lot of ideas and suggestions, but they need the help of the Scottish Executive to bring things to fruition. It is a lovely part of the world, and very picturesque, but people cannot get there. A rail link would open up the economy of the area, but its location causes problems because people need to cross the Kincardine bridge to get there from the west. At some times of the day, that route is gridlocked. Getting in or out by any other route would require public transport—either rail or bus—and there are no such services.
Liberal, Labour and SNP members have raised that issue in debate in the Parliament. Keith Raffan, Helen Eadie and Bruce Crawford have all talked about it.
The thrust of what Michael McMahon said about infrastructure is correct. There are proposals for the freight service into Clackmannan from Stirling, and the hope is that it can be developed to provide a passenger service. A lot of work has been done on proposals for the A907 that we do not know about yet.
Michael McMahon said that there was no public transport system, but I must take issue with that. There is such a system, although it may not be as extensive as it should be.
Rural communities feel isolated because the transport operators focus—as they do in other areas—on the most profitable routes.
I agree that the system could be more extensive, but local bus operators were pioneers in running wheelchair-accessible buses. However, you are quite right to say that it is notoriously difficult to travel from Clackmannan to Falkirk.
We shall now discuss the visit to South Ayrshire Council.
Ayrshire was typical in terms of information about challenge funding and elected leaders. Councillors are happy with their committee structure and electoral system. They are not happy about funding arrangements, in particular funding for education and challenge funding, and they had the usual complaints to make about those areas.
I was impressed by the tour that the councillors gave us. When we first saw the number of things that they had highlighted for us to visit, we thought that we would never get through it all in an afternoon. However, we discovered that we did not need to go further than the place that we had arrived at. The various groups, agencies and initiatives were all in the one centre. The premises used to be a school but, because of changes to the school roll, a new school was built in another part of the town. The building that was left was used to enhance the local community and serve its needs. It is a terrific venue, with a community centre where people could buy tea and coffee and do all the things that they like to do. It also gave facilities over to community groups; each group in the area had been allocated an office there. The citizens advice bureau had one, as did the credit union. All those organisations had been brought under one roof.
There is also a school next door. The two buildings had once been part of the same complex, but one school vacated and the other remained. Some of the classrooms in the remaining school were expanded into the school that was vacated to enhance the integration into the main school of children with special educational needs. Separate classes were available when they were needed, but the set-up allowed the children to be worked into mainstream schooling.
We were shown the closed-circuit television centre, which had been taken from the police service and brought under the auspices of the local authority. I thought that that was a great initiative. The centre was situated in the upper part of the building and was run by a partnership that monitored all the CCTV systems in the Ayrshire area, from Largs to Girvan. From that centre in the middle of Ayr, one can watch town centres in other parts of Ayrshire. The council had also incorporated the alert system into the building, so that people with emergency needs could contact the centre and have everything organised from once place.
It was great to see local government implementing good ideas and initiatives to benefit the whole community throughout the area, rather than focusing on the urban centre. The council was effective in working with local organisations in an innovative way.
We also saw the new developments at the harbour. That may not be to everyone's taste, but it seems to be working well for the local economy and flats have been developed where the fish port used to be. The harbour has been transformed, leaving one side residential and the other commercial and industrial. The project involved a lot of planning, and the area is beginning to reap the benefits. A lot of good things are going on in South Ayrshire.
The interesting thing about the John Pollock centre was that community groups were working well together, collaborating on an impressive newspaper that is distributed to the local community and to which local people can contribute.
The children with learning difficulties were able to work in a safe environment, running a cafe for the rest of the children and for visitors, before going out into the wider world to try out their skills. That was another innovative project.
The inspector who thought up the CCTV scheme had left the police force and was now in control of the scheme at the John Pollock centre.
If the harbour is to be based on the Swansea model, which I have seen, with flats and a courtyard, it will be impressive when it is finished, so I hope that the council perseveres with that project.
It was the first time that I had met anyone who opposed the council achieving a power of general competence. It was felt that that would lead to a breakdown in trust between local government and central Government. There was only one councillor—a Tory—who expressed that view. The Tories had not made a decision, but even they were quite surprised about that.
The councillors were disappointed about the lack of a review of local government finance. Of the council groups that I have met, South Ayrshire was the angriest about the impact of the budgets. The group articulated its argument against PR extremely well.
The council had the same basic problems as the other rural councils—deprivation, transport costs and tax on fuel. It was almost as though we had visited the same place four or five times. The body language of the councillors was most pronounced in their surprise at the Local Government Committee's approach. At first, there was a certain hostility—they thought that we had come to tell them what to do. However, by the time that we had finished that hostility had completely turned round. In the end, that council was the most receptive to our message, even though it began as the most hostile.
It is good to see that you had a love-in at that meeting.
I did not describe it as a love-in; I just said that they had changed their minds.
Under question 1 there is the comment that the
"grant of a power of general competence would exacerbate tensions between local and central government".
Did Councillor Bowie expand on that?
That was an off-the-cuff comment, which people tried to get her to justify. She could not quite justify it and the other Tories did not leap to her defence.
So it was not the view of the group?
Far from it.
I am interested in the comments made, under question 9, that
"the Local Government Committee should be entirely independent and that it should perform a scrutiny role."
Does that mean a scrutiny role in relation to local government, the Executive or a combination of both?
That comes down to the hostility that Gil picked up on. There were a few people who felt that we were just there as proxies of the Executive. It took some time to convince those people that we had come to listen to them. They wanted to emphasise their opinion that the Local Government Committee would not work if it were simply another arm of the Executive. We all know that it is not.
Do they want us to scrutinise the local authority and the Executive?
Yes.
They said that they wanted "a direct link" to the committee. Did they expand on that?
That was a comment from the same councillor that Gil Paterson mentioned, Councillor Bowie. She was really talking about her own experience. Until then, her only point of contact with the Scottish Parliament had been with her local MSP. She wanted to know how she could communicate directly with the committee as a representative of the Parliament. It took some time to explain the system.
Finally, under question 2 it says:
"It was felt that the last financial settlement had been poor."
Comments are also made on the deteriorating infrastructure in South Ayrshire. Apart from mentioning the state of the roads and the council building, did they expand on that?
They made the same arguments about the state of the roads and trying to increase the use of rail transport that we have heard in the other councils that we have visited.
Thank you for those reports. The clerk and I will look over the reports, because there are other things that I would like to pull out that did not emerge in our report on McIntosh.