Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Tuesday, April 22, 2014

Official Report 863KB pdf

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Football Clubs (Fan Ownership)

The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S4M-09518, in the name of Alison Johnstone, on fan ownership of football clubs.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament believes that football clubs are at the core of their communities across Scotland; supports ownership of football clubs by fans’ trusts, which, it believes, can deliver more responsible and representative long-term stewardship for their clubs; welcomes the efforts of individual supporters’ trusts, Scottish Fans and Supporters Direct Scotland to give fans a stronger say in how football clubs across Scotland are run; notes that four clubs playing in the SPFL are already owned by their fans and wishes the Edinburgh-based Foundation of Hearts well with its work to add its club to that list, and believes that widespread fan ownership of football clubs could be a sustainable and stable basis for the future of Scottish football.

17:35

I offer many thanks to the MSPs who have supported my motion and to those who will speak in the debate tonight, including the new Cabinet Secretary for the Commonwealth Games, Sport, Equalities and Pensioners’ Rights. I congratulate her on her promotion.

This opportunity for members’ business was meant to be Margo MacDonald’s. I do not know what relevant and incisive topic Margo would have brought for debate today, but I hope and trust that, as an advocate for sport her whole life and a loyal Hibs fan, she is content with my choice.

I imagine that there are football clubs that are important to each and every MSP’s region. Some members can claim the biggest and most successful clubs; others will be equally supportive of smaller clubs or amateur teams. Some MSPs I know even dare to support a team from outside their region. The point is that football is important to Scotland, and our clubs are often at the core of our communities. Football clubs provide excitement and drama and a sense of belonging that people care passionately about. However, I have seen too many Scottish football fans go through painful cycles of boom and bust with their clubs, not in terms of sporting success, which is par for the course, but financially. In response to those money woes and instability, the exciting yet—to be honest—not so new idea that the supporters of a football club should own the club is coming back into vogue.

I am delighted to congratulate Heart of Midlothian and all the fans and supporters in my region who have demonstrated the power of that idea so dramatically. It has literally been fans digging deep into their pockets who have kept the club afloat, along with the hard work of many people to bring the deals with shareholders to a close. Hearts is not yet out of administration, but most of the river has been crossed and we can look forward to building stronger foundations for the future. Chairwoman-elect Ann Budge has ushered in a new era for Hearts, which will become the biggest fan-owned club in the country.

I congratulate Alison Johnstone on securing the debate and commend what she is saying. Would it be a good route for clubs to go down—as Clyde, which is fan owned, has done—to have no debt built into their constitution, so that they cannot borrow?

That sounds like a sustainable and sensible model, and the issue will certainly be considered, not least by the body that the cabinet secretary will no doubt tell us about later in the debate.

Annan Athletic, Ayr United and Motherwell are all progressing in the community-ownership direction, with plans to be community owned by the start of the 2014-15 season. Clyde FC, East Stirlingshire, Stirling Albion and Dunfermline Athletic are already enjoying majority ownership by supporters, and Livingston FC announced only last week its desire to join that club.

It is important that we counter any negativity that suggests that supporter ownership cannot be done; the model is the norm for clubs in Scandinavia and Germany. Last year’s UEFA champions league final was between Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich, which are both community owned. In Scotland, individual supporters trusts, community interest companies, Scottish fans and Supporters Direct Scotland have all worked hard to demonstrate that supporters can be the most responsible and successful owners of their clubs in the long term. I believe that with ambition and vision from the Scottish Government and the Scottish Professional Football League, supporters have the chance to put more Scottish football clubs on a sound and more stable and successful footing.

The Scottish Greens are proposing support for more community ownership. I recently had what I hope was a productive meeting with the now Cabinet Secretary for the Commonwealth Games, Sport, Equalities and Pensioners’ Rights and the Minister for Local Government and Planning, at which we discussed a range of options. The idea fits squarely within the community empowerment agenda. The proposed community empowerment bill would provide an opportunity to support genuine fans’ trusts, which are developing serious and sustainable business models for their clubs.

When supporter ownership has come about, it has generally been during financial crises and against a backdrop of debt and failure. There is a need to ensure that there is a route for community ownership that does not involve crises of finance or governance. In many countries sports teams have a dedicated legal form that can allow supporters the right to influence that governance. The power to define corporate vehicles lies with Westminster, so that option is not available to us at present, nor is the power to alter insolvency arrangements. However, we do have the opportunity to build on the community right to buy that is enshrined in the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003, which the Government proposed be extended to urban areas. That right to buy is based on the idea that land may be bought from landowners when it is demonstrated that to do so would be clearly in the public interest.

For our football clubs that are owned by transient or absentee masters, many of the same public interest arguments apply. Most clubs have dedicated and committed owners but could still benefit from greater community ownership and involvement to ensure that long-term success is the ultimate goal.

There are plenty of options available, such as a right for fans to buy at the point of sale; fans’ right to a say when clubs are being sold or go into administration, which could incentivise potential buyers to offer fans trust shares or seats on the board; a right to buy at an independently assessed price at any time; or a right to buy a proportion of shares when fans cannot or do not want to own the whole club.

Scottish Greens released the results of polling today that demonstrates massive support. Of those who expressed a view, 72 per cent support there being a fans’ right to buy their clubs at any time, and an even larger 87 per cent supported there being a fans’ right to buy at point of sale. Those rights could be enabled through legislative amendments that would broaden our understanding of community assets from just land and physical assets to other assets that have significant common good.

The most straightforward way for progress to be made on supporting fan ownership would be if the sports’ governing bodies were to enshrine it within the terms of their membership codes. I am sure that many would warmly welcome any moves that the SPFL and the Scottish Football Association made to support fans who have solid business models.

Government financial support can also provide the opportunity for successful models to flourish. Our proposals provide something as important as money to fans who are looking to take over clubs: belief and opportunity. These proposals create a great goal-scoring opportunity to be taken by all the fans who want to do the work. I hope that the cabinet secretary can offer those fans, clubs and communities firm support.

17:42

I congratulate Alison Johnstone on securing this debate, which focuses the chamber’s attention on a matter of significant importance with regard to the future of Scotland’s national game.

I, too, congratulate Shona Robison on her elevation to the cabinet. In my view, it is long overdue; it is a long time since sport was at the cabinet table, so I am particularly pleased that Ms Robison has that position and I am sure that she will use it very wisely indeed.

As a member of the Co-operative Party, I fully endorse the approach that has been adopted by an increasing number of fans and communities, where they back the ownership of football clubs by supporters trusts. Indeed, it is often a point of some pride to those of us in the co-operative movement that one of the most successful football clubs in the world, Barcelona, is in fact a co-operative—that does not seem to have done it any harm.

I welcome very much the most recent manifestation of fans acting collectively to take control of what should be a community asset—the Edinburgh-based Foundation of Hearts. As a Partick Thistle and Glasgow City supporter, I wish the foundation all the best and recognise the hard work and commitment that have got it to this point.

A long time ago now, I was proud to be part of the Labour-led Government that supported the establishment of Supporters Direct Scotland in 2002—an organisation that was set up with the express aim of

“promoting sustainable spectator sports clubs based on supporters’ involvement and community ownership.”

During the 12 years of its existence, Supporters Direct Scotland has worked with fans across the country to establish more than 30 supporters trusts, 18 of which have a director on the board of their club and five of which have majority control or own their club outright. I believe that, given the significant challenges that are faced by many clubs in the present time, the course set by Supporters Direct Scotland will be seen as increasingly attractive.

In the time remaining to me, I would like to draw to the chamber’s attention one of the ways in which clubs that have taken a community-orientated approach can co-operate imaginatively with other agencies to support people who live in their neighbourhoods. Citizens Advice Scotland’s campaign on payday, high street and doorstep lending works closely with a number of football clubs. Supporters and their families are encouraged to seek help and advice with debt and other financial issues. The initiative is built on the belief that football clubs, like citizens advice bureaux, are rooted in their local communities. At the moment, both Dumfries and Galloway Citizens Advice Service and Nairn Citizens Advice Bureau have partnered with their local football clubs, Annan Athletic and Nairn County. I believe that several more such partnerships are in the pipeline and will be announced throughout 2014.

Annan Athletic, which is of particular interest to my colleague Elaine Murray, is moving towards community ownership. The club puts the community at the heart of its operation, from exercise and social clubs for senior citizens to free pitch access for young people. The club launched its community project at a recent fixture with Peterhead, at which 500 themed fliers directing supporters to their local CAB for advice were distributed to fans and a pop-up advice hall was set up in the club’s bar. Additionally, television, web and newspaper coverage of the day was widespread. The partnership between the club and the CAB will, I am certain, endure, with future link-ups already planned.

Similarly, Nairn County and Nairn CAB have targeted the 25 to 35-year-old male audience, which CABx sometimes struggle to capture and which ironically is the demographic most likely to face issues after taking out a payday loan.

Those imaginative initiatives show clearly that football clubs that are community centres can relate to the needs and aspirations of their locality much more readily than those that are based on a traditional model. I commend such initiatives and I very much look forward to fans having an increasing say in and control over their club’s future as they go forward.

17:46

I, too, welcome the debate brought to the chamber by Alison Johnstone and congratulate the former minister, Shona Robison, who is now our cabinet secretary for sport.

Football belongs to its fans, or at least it should belong to its fans. The erosion of the game is manifest regrettably in reduced general participation of amateur players and fans. I used to play football at school in the morning and I played for Downfield juniors in Dundee on Saturdays, after which I would run home to hear Dundee’s results. With apologies to the cabinet secretary, there are two teams in Dundee: Dundee and Dundee reserves. I was but one of thousands who played and paid.

Regrettably, the game is now riven by dissension and poor management. That dissension is clear today in yet another debilitating conflict between the SPFL and the SFA. In my opinion, there should be one overarching body responsible for Scottish football, and that body should include fan representation. In some clubs, there is poor management despite managers having the club at heart; in the case of more, and larger, clubs it appears to be management through unadulterated power and money.

In the recent past, Dundee—twice—Airdrie, Rangers and Hearts have been in or have faced liquidation. Two and a half years ago I was approached, because of my history, by one of Rangers’ trusts, which asked whether I could do anything to help the club. I said that I would not help directly, but I suggested that it might consider that Rangers had 65,000 fans and if they paid an average of £5 a week—pensioners would pay £1; others might pay £9—in two and a half years it would gather £37.5 million, of which £2.5 million would run the operation, which would leave £35 million to help to recover the company. The caveat was that it should equate to a share issue: a truly co-operative venture. The problem was that the several trusts involved could not agree on how that might operate.

It is incumbent on fans to embrace the spirit of a co-operative venture. Even so, clubs in trouble or those that wish to grow might consider other vehicles. Bruce Crawford, who regrettably cannot be here this evening for personal reasons, went through with me today the initiative that Dunfermline Athletic created: Pars United, which is a corporate vehicle that was used to purchase 93.6 per cent of the football club. That community interest company adds an ethical dimension to corporate law. It is subject to normal company law, but it must act for the good of the community. There is an asset lock that prevents asset stripping, limits dividends and restricts directors’ salaries. It is a shame that the banks could not be converted to CICs.

There are other vehicles. Stirling Albion, for example, is fan owned. I will not rehearse all the other teams that Alison Johnstone mentioned. My personal preference is community social enterprises that embrace the local football club and other sports. That is happening at Kilwinning Rangers and Stenhousemuir.

One thing is certain: Scottish football at a professional level cannot continue as it is. If, on a larger scale, Barcelona and some of the major successful German clubs that have been mentioned can benefit from fan ownership, so can Scotland’s clubs.

17:51

I congratulate Alison Johnstone on securing this debate and on her generous words about Margo MacDonald, whose chairmanship of the cross-party group on sport proved that she was passionate about all sports. However, I think that there was something very special in her heart when it came to football.

Across Scotland, few issues provoke the same passion and strength of feeling that football does. Obviously, they also go with the media attention that it attracts. That is not always for good reasons and it is sometimes to the exclusion of other sports. However, it is right that the Parliament takes the opportunity to discuss some of the finer points of what are complex and often controversial issues. Chic Brodie was quite right to say that something has to happen to mend the game in Scotland.

Obviously, this is a year in which we are debating hugely important questions about our constitutional future, but we are also debating our sporting identity. This debate fits with the scrutiny that is required for that, and I hope that it will prompt more scrutiny of other Scottish sports and the direction of travel that we will take in the future.

No one is under any illusions about the severity of the financial problems that threaten Scottish football. In recent years, great institutions such as Rangers, Hearts and Dunfermline have been brought to the very brink, and despite the tremendous efforts of supporters, staff and some administrators, it still remains to be seen whether they will all make it back fully into the black in the way that was possible before.

Financial mismanagement of varying degrees has been at the heart of those troubles and many similar cases in England. In the pursuit of glory on the pitch, some clubs have broken their wage structures and lived far beyond their means. John Mason, who is no longer in the chamber, made an important point about what could be written into constitutions. Other clubs have been subjected to ruinous decision making by owners who, quite frankly, have considered them to be their own fiefdoms or perhaps personal playthings. There is a serious issue there.

It is fair to say that the footballing authorities in both Scotland and England have had too relaxed an attitude to club ownership. We all know the names of those involved, but some people have sought to dominate clubs from top to bottom. They made false promises in doing that, and cut and run when the going got tough.

I welcome the SFA’s decision to oblige Scottish clubs to investigate potential new owners, but it should not have taken until 2012, when the full extent of the problems in some of our biggest clubs had already emerged, before that rule was passed.

To be effective, regulation must not only be enforced; it must be ahead of the curve and anticipate problems before they arise. Two members have talked about how much the fans matter. They do, and football has a much greater chance of success if it responds to that. Fans have been very unimpressed by the lack of integrity and transparency that there has been, and the only way to counter that accusation is through tougher regulation.

As things stand, four of our 42 SPFL clubs are already in community ownership. I think that that figure will soon rise, which is a very refreshing change in many ways. I commend the passion and drive of the various supporters groups that have stepped in and opened their collective wallets during very troubled times. However, we must be careful not to demonise all the individual owners because there are those who are doing their level best to ensure that they make their clubs much more stable, through shrewd ownership, and who are looking at much more prudent financial planning. There is a happy balance to be struck.

Alison Johnstone raised some interesting points about community ownership, which she compared with other interesting debates across Scotland about what community involvement means. We must take a careful look at the claim about whether the common will is perhaps better than that of some individuals, but we also must be very careful not to disrespect the rights of some individuals.

The best way to ensure that our clubs are run soundly is to vet much more stringently those who wish to take charge of them. The process needs to be tougher and the footballing authorities more transparent. Above all, we must pay heed to what the fans want and say, and ensure that there is much greater integrity and transparency in Scottish football.

17:56

I thank Alison Johnstone for securing the debate. I also congratulate Shona Robison on her new Cabinet role.

Presiding Officer, you may or may not be aware that I am a proud Paisley buddie. I may have mentioned that on more than one occasion; I may even have got away with doing so up until now. Years ago, I infuriated a previous employer when he asked me whether there was more to George Adam than someone who was a St Mirren supporter from Paisley and a Scottish National Party member. I said that if he added my wife and two children to the equation, he would pretty much have exactly what George Adam is. I am proud of that, as I am of our great town and its history and our football team. It not easy being a St Mirren fan. It can be extremely difficult and challenging because we win a trophy only every 25 years but, boy, when we win a trophy the town celebrates—it is one town, one team and one big party.

We won the cup in 1926; in 1959, my dad and grandpa saw the team win against Aberdeen; and, in 1987, I was there with my family, including my father, to see the team win the Scottish cup. I have brought up my children in the belief that St Mirren is the only true local team for those who come from Paisley to support. James, Jessica and my wife and I celebrated with the whole town last year when we won the communities league cup.

St Mirren and Paisley go together. The club was founded in 1877. It was named after the patron saint who founded the town and the abbey. However, the relationship goes even further than that—the club colours, which are black and white, come from the Black Cart Water and the White Cart Water that flow through Paisley town. That sums up a team such as St Mirren—it is a community club whose colours come from the two rivers that flow through the very heart of the town. That makes me proud to support my local team. Indeed, the club is an important part of the community and it is involved in many local projects such as street stuff, which helps people who live in areas that are hotspots for anti-social behaviour problems to play football. Over the years, that project has done very well and it is that community spirit that has led the project to win more awards than the football club.

The St Mirren Independent Supporters Association has been going since the late 1990s, which was a very difficult time for the club. The association took a different route. It decided to participate in the board and to create money to support the board and the club during those difficult times. At one point, it went as far as funding the purchase of a player, Stewart Kean from Ayr United, for £10,000. Of course, some people might say that that was not such a great decision. That is the problem when one talks about such decisions and that is the problem with supporters’ trusts: as I recently said to the St Mirren chairman, I do not know how he does that role because, as a supporter, my heart and head get completely mixed up when it comes to my football team and logic goes out the window. We therefore must be extremely careful when we talk about supporters’ trusts and how we set them up, but for a club such as St Mirren, that is the way forward.

St Mirren has been up for sale for a couple of years and the board, which saved the club and has done so well, is saying that it will ensure that St Mirren passes on to an ownership that retains a secure future for the club. However, fans always have a fear factor when they know that their club is for sale. We are always worried that someone might come in. There were attempts to look at a trust for St Mirren and, a year or two ago, a more complicated arrangement was being talked about that was not as democratic as we think a fans’ trust should be.

There are many different forms of trust and I do not think that any two clubs in Scotland have the same form of trust that is owned by fans. There needs to be flexibility. When it comes to my club, I think that it would be a good idea if a fans’ trust owned the club and we had an elected board; I think that that is the Barcelona model. We could elect people with expertise, and the board might include people who had been involved at that level in the past and who could train people up to look after the club.

Fan ownership would be challenging for clubs like St Mirren, but it is the way forward. We need flexibility, because what is right for one club might not be right for another.

18:00

I am glad that George Adam mentioned St Mirren—I was surprised that he did, of course. My old classmate Danny Lennon is the manager there and he delivered the trophy that George mentioned. I remember never being able to get the ball off him in physical education classes.

I played, watched and supported football throughout my teenage years and my 20s and 30s, and I can occasionally be seen playing for that fine band of athletes, the Parliament’s football team, but I admit to having fallen out of love with the game recently. We can all put on our rose-tinted glasses and look back with nostalgia on bygone days, when we stood on terraces, frozen to the bone, and had to use toilets that were knee deep in—well, something. In my view, in those days the game was a bit more honest and a bit more grass roots. There was more enthusiasm for the game.

Today’s game is very different. At the highest level, there is a chasm between the fans and the players on the pitch. All-seater stadia have been introduced, absolutely for good reasons after the desperate events at Valley Parade and Hillsborough—I look forward to justice for the 96 being delivered in the next year or so—but such changes have sapped much of the atmosphere from the game. The salaries that are provided to often less-than-average players increase the gulf between players and the often low-paid supporters, who give up their hard-earned pay to watch their team and players who can earn more in a week than they do in a year.

I accept that that is not the case throughout football, especially in the lower leagues in Scotland. I pay tribute to the smaller clubs, the junior clubs and the amateur clubs and Sunday league. Such clubs’ committees and communities—the people who keep the clubs going—are the real heroes of football in Scotland, not the prima donnas whom we see on our televisions.

Proposals on fan ownership often emerge out of adversity, which should not be the case. Most clubs in Scotland that are in or moving towards community ownership are in that position as a result of their having major financial problems. I look forward to the day when one of our big teams or one of the big English teams takes the approach, not out of financial necessity but to build its operation in co-operation with fans, who are central to the game’s development and clubs’ sustainability. When a club such as Celtic, Rangers, Chelsea or Man City leads by example and welcomes the community approach, there will be a better atmosphere at matches, there will be more community development, players will be closer to the fans who pay their wages, and I think that we will have a better game all round.

Such models exist in Germany, Spain and Greece, and I was surprised to learn that every club in Argentina operates under such a model. I do not think that that has done football in Argentina any harm, given that country’s world cup record.

Today’s sacking of David Moyes is an example of all that is bad in football and it saddens me greatly. Things must change or we will get into further trouble.

18:04

During my 30 years in sports journalism I saw up close a variety of forms of football club ownership—the good, the bad and the downright disastrous. The experience convinced me that genuine, broad-based fan ownership, where it is practical and deliverable, is desirable.

That said, we should not lose sight of the fact that some of the worst implosions involving Scottish clubs have involved genuine supporters, including individuals who made their fortunes displaying considerable business acumen in other fields, securing control of the teams that they have supported from childhood and making a pig’s ear of it. Determined to awaken the sleeping giant or turn their club into challengers to the established order, they leave their business brains at the door of the boardroom as they enter it. Blinded by genuine affection for the team and in some cases revelling in the ego trip that can be football club chairmanship, they blunder on ignoring the warning signs.

It is said that the only way in which to make a small fortune from owing a football club is to start with a large one. Historically in Scottish football, the money is all too often borrowed and flushed down the drain as players are brought in on unsustainable contracts and managerial teams are brought together and then dismissed in pursuit of the elusive, cherished prize. It is not always an individual who oversees such spectacular collapses. At Dunfermline, a board of successful businesspeople, all of them supporters, led the club to the brink of oblivion, and it is worth noting that Dundee’s second flirtation with disaster came with fan representation on the board.

The collapse of football clubs is horrendous for everyone who is caught up in the situation, from the creditors, especially the wee local businesses, to the young players who are cast on the scrap heap, the office staff and the senior pros with mortgages whose contracts are shredded. It is awful. In my opinion, however, no group of people suffers more than the fans. They face the emotional wringer as the administrators, as they invariably do, paint the bleakest possible picture and tell the supporters, “It’s up to you supporters to save the club—if you care, dig deep.” It is terrible, and the emotional blackmail goes on and on. We have seen it in a variety of places.

Let us indeed look carefully at expanding fan ownership. It tends to offer more sustainability, and I say that with confidence because it has been tried and tested in Scotland over more than 100 years. We seem to talk about supporters’ trusts and community ownership as if they are relatively new things, but in essence they are not. Brechin City Football Club in Angus has operated as a members’ club since 1906. The Glebe parkers do not have a board. They have a management committee that is elected by the season ticket holders, à la Barcelona. Right now, if we look at the division 1 table, Brechin might not seem a great example of how well this set-up works, but it is a club that, from a town with a population of just 6,000, has done remarkably well on the field down the years, and in David Will it produced one of the finest administrators that European football has ever seen.

In the part of Angus that I represent, the only senior club—Arbroath—is to all intents and purposes still a members’ club. Okay, 10 years ago it became a limited company, but the 300 shareholders are all fans of the club. Although seemingly doomed this season to relegation to the bottom tier of Scottish football, the Red Lichties have in the not-too-distant past plied their trade just one level below the top flight.

The model that is highlighted in the motion works, although I am not entirely sure about the right to buy that is proposed. I also sound a couple of notes of caution. First, running a football club at any level takes an enormous amount of work and requires an appropriate level of experience of the rules of the competitions.

Does the member agree that we can look at clubs that have great experience of community ownership models—Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and so on—to establish what needs to be in place to ensure that there is a sustainable, sound future and avoid the situations that he described?

That is true, but we have to look at the practicalities at a low level in Scotland. I was also going to make the point that, as well as an appropriate level of financial restraint, which John Mason rightly touched on, people need a thick skin. It is one thing for people to stand on the terraces or sit in the stands giving those who run their clubs pelters and being convinced that they could do better, but it is another for them to dedicate the hours that are required to take the job on and then to deal with the folk who they used to stand on the terraces with, who will tell them where the club is coming up short and how they could do a better job.

Good on the fans who are prepared to take on the responsibility for the clubs that they love and make sure that they live within their means and are around for many years to come, and in conclusion I say good on Alison Johnstone for securing the opportunity for the Parliament to discuss the topic.

18:09

I, too, congratulate Alison Johnstone on bringing the debate to the chamber and the cabinet secretary on her new appointment. I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests and the various references to Heart of Midlothian Football Club therein.

There are different sorts of communities. There are geographic communities and communities of interest. People talk about local clubs. My local club is the Lochaber Camanachd shinty team. The football team that I support is the team that my father supported—Heart of Midlothian. I come from rural Lochaber and I have a real affinity with the land. That is expressed in ways that would not necessarily be meaningful to anyone who is not from the area. People talk about where the deer go, the big rock that we used to play on and where big Davy lives up the glen.

There are significant issues around land ownership in the Highlands, which have similarities to the topic that we are discussing. In the song “Homeland”, Dougie MacLean sings:

“Now you’ve bought a little piece of something

That you don’t understand and you’ve misunderstood”.

The other community to which I belong is the community of Hearts fans. If I say things like “Fozzie on the fence”, “Tommy Murray sitting on the ball” and “Robbo’s 27 goals”, that paints a vivid and exciting picture for many, although I suspect that those phrases are meaningless to non-Jambos such as Alison Johnstone. There was outrage when a previous owner of our club changed the badge and when an abbreviation was used on the players’ socks that did not reflect the abbreviation that the fans used. Fans have the attitude,

“Yes Sir you may have paid good money for it but no it’ll

never belong to you”.

I am a member of the Foundation of Hearts and various other groups that have combined, and I have two lots of shares—my only dip in the waters of capitalism. Both of them are with Heart of Midlothian, which is not a lucrative investment, as members may imagine. I have two lots of shares but only one certificate because the second lot of money was appropriated by someone who is presently a fugitive from justice, shall we say, to pay the tax—and I think that it is important to pay the tax. The shares have zero monetary value but they have a big emotional value.

The Foundation of Hearts is a not-for-profit organisation that was created in 2010 by a group of lifelong Hearts fans. I quote its objective from its website:

“We have a shared and passionate vision for the future which is based on bringing Heart of Midlothian back to the people who are truly passionate about this wonderful club—the fans.”

The foundation has been joined by various other groups and has been supported by Supporters Direct. We are also ably supported by our chair, Ian Murray MP.

Patricia Ferguson mentioned the co-operative movement. Supporters Direct helps fans to set up democratic co-operatives that are known as supporters’ trusts with the express purpose of gaining influence over the running and ownership of their clubs. In the “About” section of its website, under the heading “Why we exist”, Supporters Direct states:

“We exist because we are needed: The game can be better run and should be more responsive to the needs of its fans and local communities.”

A number of genuine football clubs have been mentioned. Dundee Football Club and Dunfermline Athletic Football Club have been in difficulty, and fans from my club have helped them out. Ross County fans travelled free of charge to the game in Edinburgh on Saturday courtesy of the generosity of their club, although there was a whip-round on every bus and an extremely generous donation was made to the club. There is a warmth across fans. The motion talks about being responsible, and I think that fans would abide by the state’s rules—taxes would be paid on time; local suppliers and staff would be paid on time; and staff and customers would be respected—and they would certainly abide by football’s rules. For all the trauma that is associated with the fans, the fans have never cheated, although individuals may have done.

There has been a lot of talk about the various models, and I hear Graeme Dey’s wise words of caution. Those are words that every group considers when it considers fan ownership, but they are the same words that would have been said to the Assynt crofters: “Ye cannae dae it.” They are the words that would have been said to people on the isles of Eigg and Gigha, but those are positive examples of what can be done.

The Foundation of Hearts states its objective as being

“to ensure a stable financial future where all funds generated by the club,”

the Foundation of Hearts

“and the fans are reinvested in the football club.”

That is responsible, sustainable and stable.

I am grateful that we have had the opportunity to discuss the motion.

18:13

I thank Alison Johnstone for securing this important debate. I am sure that Margo MacDonald would have approved. I also thank members from across the chamber for their kind comments and their positive contributions to the debate.

As others have said, everyone agrees that football clubs at all levels play an important role in communities throughout Scotland. They are often an important local employer, they contribute to employment in the local economy through local suppliers and they are, therefore, a key local economic driver. Beyond that, they are often recognised as a central community asset that helps to bring people together to celebrate and, at times, commiserate performances on the pitch. George Adam’s description of St Mirren captured very well what the club means to the town of Paisley.

Successful and sustainable football clubs—the same is, of course, true of other sports clubs—bring people from all walks of life together with a common purpose and help to create and maintain strong communities. Football is more important than the sport itself, so we must do everything to protect that while ensuring that the voice of the everyday fan is heard.

The Scottish Government recognises the importance of that, which is why we actively support the principle of developing fan-based ownership through our funding of Supporters Direct Scotland. SDS has been instrumental in supporting and advising football clubs on fan-based ownership models. Neil Findlay made the important point that such developments should not take place just at times of crisis. SDS provides advice not just at times of crisis but to all clubs that are looking to develop and grow, which is important.

Members will be aware that four clubs in Scotland—Dunfermline Athletic, Stirling Albion, Clyde and East Stirlingshire—are already in community ownership and that several other clubs, including Motherwell, Ayr United, Annan Athletic and Heart of Midlothian, are well down the road of introducing some form of fan-based ownership or community-interest company.

As other members have done, I very much welcome the recent move on Hearts and the fact that the offer from Ann Budge and the Foundation of Hearts has been accepted. That is very good news, which will allow the club to move a step closer to coming out of administration.

Football today is no longer just about generations of families following their team and the ups and downs that go with a lifetime of devotion and support. There is a strong commercial dimension that demands the involvement of strong individuals and influential decision makers who are capable of leading clubs to success on the pitch and delivering long-term sustainability. Graeme Dey made the point that, in today’s environment, expertise is important. That is not incompatible with fan ownership, but it is an issue that needs to be borne in mind.

The landscape is changing and it is becoming clearer that, in order to survive and thrive, clubs need to be more transparent in how they operate, how they are governed and how they engage with and listen to their fans. It is not necessarily true that all fans want to be involved in the running of their club—some will want to be and some will not—but they want an assurance that their club is being well run, well managed, properly governed and adequately financed so that the team can perform at the highest level on the pitch. Therefore, a strong financial baseline is essential, but as we have seen from some recent high-profile cases, a lot of work is still needed in that area in Scottish football.

That is why I am pleased to announce the establishment of an independent working group that will look at how we can increase and improve fans’ involvement in football clubs. The group will be chaired by Stephen Morrow, who is a well-respected senior lecturer in sport finance at the University of Stirling. It will have representation from the Scottish Football Association, the Scottish Professional Football League and Supporters Direct Scotland, and the chair will be able to appoint others as he deems appropriate.

The plan is for the group to meet for the first time next month and to report its findings and recommendations to me later this year. We will, of course, look to inform Parliament of those findings and recommendations. More details on the make-up of the group will be made available in the next few days. I know that there will be considerable interest in the group’s work over the coming months, from not just the football world but the political world.

I welcome the minister’s announcement of the supporter involvement group. Will she and the Government ensure that the group has an ambitious mandate and will they be prepared to consider any more radical recommendations that the group might make in time?

Yes. I do not want to rule anything in or out. I want the group to look at how good governance and accountability, together with a strong partnership approach that involves fans, can work. That might not be a one-size-fits-all approach, but I think that we have heard in the debate that one size probably does not fit all and that there are different models.

I am keen to reach consensus on what the barriers are and how we can remove them. That might or might not involve legislative means, or it might be about governance rules. However, I would rather that the working group took forward that work and came up with recommendations that would allow us to genuinely move forward. I am happy to keep members up to date on progress.

The structure of clubs and regulations are already complex and we do not want to further complicate things. That is something else to bear in mind. Before any proposals for change are made—whatever they end up being—they must be fully considered by all parties. I am sure that Stephen Morrow and the working group that he will chair will ensure that that is the case and that in doing so they will take soundings and listen to the views of fans and of other organisations.

It is fair to say that the financial future of our football clubs cannot be taken for granted and that we must ensure that any proposed changes do not threaten or discourage future investment in something that is so precious to fans and communities across Scotland. However, I believe that, with the right people around the table and the expertise of the clubs that have already gone down the route of fan-based ownership, we can get to a better position.

I thank members again for their contributions to the debate.

Meeting closed at 18:21.