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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, January 27, 2011


Contents


First Minister’s Question Time


Engagements



1. To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-2857)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

Later today, I will have meetings to discuss the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure’s announcement this morning about upgrading the A90 to dual-carriageway standard. That is not as big a project as the M74 or the M80, which is now approaching completion. Nonetheless, it is a vital part of Scotland’s road infrastructure network and I am sure that everyone in the chamber was delighted by that announcement this morning.

Iain Gray

This week, Labour released a list of 100 promises that Alex Salmond made to Scotland and that he has broken. Here is another one that is not in that list. In April 2008, the First Minister promised that he would never leave the city of Aberdeen in the lurch. This week, Aberdeen City Council announced that it will make 900 council workers compulsorily redundant. Those workers are in a pretty big lurch. What is the First Minister going to do about it?

The First Minister

The Scottish Government has sent a strong signal to the public sector to avoid compulsory redundancies. That is our dearest wish and our policy position. We are negotiating with our unions on pay restraint to make that possible. I am sure that the administration in Aberdeen is anxious to do that and will make proposals to make it possible in the city.

The issue of local government funding is difficult, indeed. Many people in Aberdeen are concerned that the local government funding formula has, for many years, given it a much lower settlement than those that have been given elsewhere. Of course, that formula was devised by the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties. Aberdeen’s settlement has been 84 per cent of the average.

In 2009, John Swinney asked the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to do a review and made proposals that could bring about greater parity and fairness. I have here a copy of the front page of the Glasgow Evening Times, showing the reaction of a senior Labour politician to the proposal for more parity in local government funding. His name was Steven Purcell. Remember him? The headline is “We must fight this ‘bribe’”. So, when a proposal was on the table to bring greater parity to local government funding in Scotland to help places such as Aberdeen, which was receiving substantially below the average, a leading Labour Party politician in Scotland said that it was a “bribe”. The Labour Party will never get away with saying one thing in Glasgow and another in the north-east of Scotland.

Iain Gray

The Scottish National Party will never get away with saying one thing in Holyrood and another in Aberdeen. The SNP councillors in Aberdeen have not heard the First Minister’s signal. They are not doing all that they can do to avoid the redundancies. For the sake of £3 million for a voluntary redundancy scheme, they are going to make 900 workers redundant. They can find £60 million for their new council headquarters, but they cannot find £3 million for a voluntary redundancy scheme.

Of those 900 job losses, 100 will be teachers. Even in the dark days of the Tories, I cannot remember teachers being made compulsorily redundant. Rifkind, Younger, Lang, Forsyth: none of them did that or allowed it to happen. If it did not happen in Thatcher’s Britain, why is it happening in Salmond’s Scotland?

The First Minister

Iain Gray needs to catch up with two particular things. First, he needs to catch up with the situation in the north-east of Scotland. The council in Aberdeen is trying to avoid compulsory redundancies. That is its policy; that is what it is trying to do. I hope that Iain Gray will support it in trying to avoid compulsory redundancies and lend his voice to that aim and ambition.

Aberdeen City Council, like every public authority in Scotland, has major economic pressures bearing down on it. That is the case for every public service—even the health service, which has been protected by this Government and which would face an uncertain future under the Labour Party.

Of course, the Labour position is that it has nothing to do with the situation, which is why Iain Gray should catch up on the wise words of Ed Miliband—his colleague in government. On “The Andrew Marr Show” just a week past Sunday, he said:

“we should have acknowledged earlier ... the financial crisis happened”

and

“there would have to be cuts under Labour. Our plans ... involved cuts and we should have acknowledged that ... we sometimes looked like we were pretending there weren't going to be cuts under Labour when in fact there were ... that is a point that I acknowledge.”

Unfortunately, Ed Miliband did not get the message through to Iain Gray when he campaigned with him. Iain Gray’s own leader acknowledges that two thirds of the funding pressure that is faced by Aberdeen City Council and by every council in Scotland is down to the Labour Party in government.

Maybe we can get back to Aberdeen. I call Iain Gray.

Iain Gray

We have an SNP First Minister here and an administration in Aberdeen with the SNP as part of it. Is the First Minister seriously saying that it is Ed Miliband’s fault? Of course, it was a different story when SNP councillors planned to close schools in Argyll. The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning ordered them to do a U-turn and walk out on the council. When SNP councillors in Aberdeen are planning to sack 900 workers, will the First Minister get on the phone and tell them to walk out on their mess, too?

The First Minister

I was merely pointing out, from the words of Ed Miliband, that he is prepared to accept responsibility for at least two thirds of the funding cuts that are now being imposed on Scotland.

The SNP Government has increased the share of expenditure to local authorities in Scotland; it has now risen to 34.5 per cent of the Scottish budget and we inherited a rate of 33.5 per cent. If we have increased the share to local government, the Government has done well by local authorities, which is acknowledged by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. It must therefore be that the overall budget is too low not to put public services under enormous pressure.

Ed Miliband is prepared to acknowledge that situation, and Labour’s responsibility for it, so when will Iain Gray accept responsibility on the part of the Labour Party in Scotland? If it is a question of the share that is allocated to Aberdeen City Council, why on earth did the Labour Party in Glasgow describe an attempt to redress the imbalance as a “bribe”—or is Steven Purcell to be written out of Labour Party history? The facts are that this Government is protecting local government and that this Administration is doing everything that it possibly can to avoid compulsory redundancies in Scotland.

Iain Gray

If Ed Miliband is willing to take responsibility for anything, that puts him one step ahead of Alex Salmond, who has never taken responsibility for anything in his life.

The First Minister is right, though: it is not just Aberdeen. In Dundee, the SNP has the nerve to claim that it is improving schools by cutting education budgets. In Edinburgh, Alex Neil was sent in last week to cut the Edinburgh jobless services in half, by more than £2 million—at a time like this. And yes—then there is Glasgow. The SNP cancelled the Glasgow airport rail link last year, and this year it has cut the Glasgow gateway—the biggest regeneration project in Scotland—by half. What is it with Salmond and the city? Does the First Minister have some sort of vendetta against Scotland’s cities?

First Minister, I must ask you to be relatively brief, please. Time is marching on rather too quickly. [Interruption.]

The First Minister

As everybody in the chamber knows and would acknowledge, the 2.6 per cent decline in revenue funding to local government for next year is a difficult settlement. However, it is better than for any other major public service except the health service, which we are protecting under this Government. It is acknowledged across local government that that causes pressures, so councillors must do their best to avoid compulsory redundancies—as they will do in Aberdeen and as the Government is doing in Edinburgh.

I do accept responsibility. It is time that Iain Gray accepted responsibility for voting for a £500 million trams project in Edinburgh that nobody wanted and, for that matter, for voting for an illegal war that we now know was a tapestry of lies. [Interruption.]

Order. The chamber will come to order.


Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)



2. To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S3F-2858)

I have no plans to meet the secretary of state in the near future, but I heard him on the radio this morning.

Annabel Goldie

In Scotland, cancer sufferers are being denied access to a range of drugs that can prolong life for some patients, which are now available in England. A report in October by the Rarer Cancers Foundation published a list of at least 18 drugs that are available in England but not in Scotland. The Scottish Conservatives have proposed the setting up of a Scottish cancer drugs fund to help patients in Scotland to get those drugs. Does the First Minister agree that Scottish cancer patients deserve the same access to those drugs as patients in England have?

The First Minister

Annabel Goldie should acknowledge that the Scottish Medicines Consortium is a very robust system of authorising drugs in Scotland and has been widely admired. It has difficult decisions to make, as resources are constrained in the health service even though the NHS budget is being protected by this Administration. The SMC has to make difficult decisions, and they are made only after tremendous consideration has been given to their effects.

I have heard many stories emanating from England that complain about some drugs being authorised in Scotland but not by the processes down south. The decisions are made in the best interests of patients; however, inevitably, in any decision to authorise drug use, there is always a resource issue as well. The balancing of effectiveness against resources is an extremely difficult decision and I hope that Annabel Goldie will acknowledge that there is a robust process to help ministers with that decision.

Annabel Goldie

I have listened carefully to what the First Minister has said. Difficult challenges confront us, but I do not think that we should ever be timid about looking at what is happening elsewhere. This specific issue is one of importance and urgency. The United Kingdom Government’s commitment to set up a cancer drugs fund for patients in England and Wales has been warmly received by cancer sufferers, their families and campaign groups there. It is time that the Scottish Government took action here. The UK Government thinks that the issue is so important that it has provided interim funding.

Will the First Minister agree to meet me and my health spokesman to discuss how we might proceed on the matter in Scotland, including the setting up of an interim fund, to give cancer patients in Scotland the same access to the drugs as patients have in England?

The First Minister

It is wrong to say that in Scotland we do not have access to the range of drugs to which people in England have access. That is just not true. The process that we have at the moment is independent and robust. We are always prepared—and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing is always prepared—to meet members to discuss ideas and concepts that could improve the situation further. However, on this most sensitive of issues, Annabel Goldie should acknowledge that we have a robust and independent process in Scotland that serves patients and the people well. Every decision in this area is a difficult one. It is extraordinarily difficult to have to have resource consequences as part of the decision making. We will meet Annabel Goldie to see what ideas she can suggest, but let us start from the basis that the process that we have in place in Scotland now is independent and robust.


Cabinet (Meetings)



3. To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S3F-2859)

The next meeting of Cabinet will discuss issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

Last week, I informed the First Minister that the high pay bill for the public sector had increased by £53 million in just one year. Does he know what the bonus bill is for the same period?

The First Minister

I have all the figures here. I am delighted that Tavish Scott has returned to this subject, as I can now explain the conundrum that he put to us last week of the so-called £50 million that Jeremy Purvis said we could save.

Last week, Tavish Scott compared salaries of more than £100,000 over two successive years. Some £40 million of that £50 million came from the national health service. It was caused by the fact that the maximum consultant’s salary increased from £98,962 to £100,446, covering some 450 consultants. I lead Tavish Scott to the conclusion that, to save £40 million, we would have to sack every one of those consultants. By reducing their salaries to under £100,000, we would save £450,000.

I do not really think that, whatever Tavish Scott believes about consultants, he is going to stand up the claim that was made by him last week, and which was repeated by Jeremy Purvis yesterday, that there is a £450 million pot of gold. That could be achieved only by sacking 450 consultants in the NHS.

Tavish Scott

That answer was utterly dreadful. It had nothing to do with the question that I asked. The First Minister’s answer needs to be clearer, because the bonuses were signed off by his Government—they are the First Minister’s bonuses. It was his policy that promised punitive action on high pay, so why have bonuses gone up by 50 per cent at Scottish Water, Scottish Enterprise and the Scottish Prison Service? Bonuses are up to £48 million in the public sector and high pay is up £50 million. Will the First Minister tell us what has been cut to pay for his bonuses and high pay?

Alex Salmond

For the second year running, we are asking chief executives to waive all or part of any bonus, and many have agreed to do so. We have restricted the level of non-consolidated performance payments for senior civil servants to £600,000, which is down from the £1.2 million that we inherited from the Labour-Liberal Administration.

The vast majority of bonuses in the public sector are, indeed, consultants’ bonuses. That is the system that we inherited, and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing is the first minister with responsibility for health to freeze those bonuses, and has been urging action on the Westminster Government—past and present—so that we can move together on these issues.

Because Tavish Scott read out his second question, he slipped out the £50 million figure from the first question.

That is because it is true.

The First Minister

I know—after that wonderful point of order yesterday, which had us all spellbound—that such things often do not occur to Mike Rumbles very quickly, but the point is that the only way in which we could save £50 million is by sacking 450 consultants. If we just want to reduce their pay to under £100,000, we would save £450,000. Those things are not matters of politics; they are matters of arithmetic. Just as we should beware of Greeks bearing gifts, we should beware of Liberal Democrats with budget-saving ideas.

What is the Scottish Government’s position on the report by the Scottish digital network panel that a new television network for Scotland should be created and funded from the licence fee?

The First Minister

The Scottish Government welcomes the panel’s report and agrees with the central recommendation that a new digital network for Scotland should be established and funded from the television licence fee.

This Parliament has already seen cross-party consensus in support of the Scottish digital network. I hope that we can build on that unity and, as a Parliament, press the United Kingdom Government to implement the panel’s recommendation. [Interruption.]

Order. I am sorry, First Minister.

If members at the back of the chamber wish to have debates among themselves, could they do so outside?

The First Minister

In response to the UK Government’s recently published local media action plan, the Scottish Government will argue that a Scottish digital network, with scope for local opt-outs, is the best way of delivering more localised broadcasting and will bring benefits for viewers and the creative industries in Scotland.

Joe FitzPatrick

At 2 per cent of the licence fee, the proposals for a Scottish digital channel should be taken seriously by the BBC.

Members on all sides of the chamber have been highlighting the need for a dedicated “Scottish Six” news bulletin without success for a number of years. Does the First Minister agree that a new dedicated digital television channel for Scotland could bring a “Scottish Six”—a Scottish news bulletin—one step closer?

Yes, I do. I acknowledge, in supporting the idea, that it has had cross-party support. I am looking for the Conservatives’ media spokesperson; I do not know whether he is here today, but nonetheless—

Members: He is in Malawi.

The First Minister

He is in Malawi. There was no disrespect intended, because I was going to say that Ted Brocklebank, with his experience in broadcasting, was one of the first people to bring forward that idea. It is an idea whose time has come, and we should continue to unite as a Parliament to press the issue. We should be extremely grateful to the network panel that was headed by Blair Jenkins, the former chair of the Scottish Broadcasting Commission, which has produced such an excellent and thoughtful report that members in the chamber can, I hope, unite behind.

Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab)

The First Minister is aware that Labour has supported the idea of investing in and growing the Scottish broadcasting industry, and a Scottish digital channel, provided that it is not at the expense of existing Scottish output and that it is a channel of quality.

Given that the BBC already reached an agreement last October on how the licence fee would be used, and given that the Tory-Liberal coalition Government has imposed new costs on the BBC—including £340 million for the cost of the world service—and has frozen the licence fee for the next six years, how does the First Minister propose to open up those talks? I presume that we are not proposing to reduce BBC Scotland’s budget, in that argument.

The First Minister

As Pauline McNeill knows, and has acknowledged and supported in previous discussions and debates, if one looks at the spending of the licence fee in Scotland and the spending on BBC Scotland, and at the Scottish contribution to the network, which is still way under population share, it is not unreasonable for the digital network panel to suggest a proposal that would cost 2 per cent of the licence fee.

If the discussion is closed until 2017, the report proposed that bridge funding might be provided from the proceeds of auctioning the cleared spectrum after the digital switchover in 2012. The report anticipated that we might get a shut door from Westminster on the basis that agreement had been reached until 2017, and therefore proposed an alternative funding mechanism. With that in mind, and given the strength behind the report and the broad welcome that it has received across the media and cultural industries in Scotland, I hope that we can continue our unity as a Parliament, which is the best possible outcome in terms of achieving what we all want to see in Scotland.


Domestic Violence



5. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s position is on the violence reduction unit’s report that 4,783 domestic violence incidents were logged by police forces during December 2010. (S3F-2866)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

Domestic abuse is completely unacceptable and the Government continues to work closely with all key partners, including the police, to ensure that perpetrators are held to account and victims have access to appropriate support.

We know that domestic abuse is under-reported, which is why the violence reduction unit campaigns annually to encourage and increase reporting. As part of that campaign, Scottish police forces have introduced a number of measures to combat the most serious offenders, including global positioning system tracking and third-party reporting. We will continue to tackle the issue head on, with funding of more than £11 million proposed for 2011-12, which is 40 per cent higher than the budget in 2006-07.

Richard Baker

Will the First Minister agree that those figures show the need for continued support for the groups that are doing excellent work to deal with the serious and stubborn problem of domestic abuse in Scotland? Given that sentencing for those offences is crucial to the overall approach, what consideration has been given to building on the success of the domestic abuse court in Glasgow that was established in the previous session of Parliament, and to developing approaches in other parts of the country?

The First Minister

The route that we have chosen, in distributing the 40 per cent increase in funding to tackle this serious issue, is to ensure that a variety of support services and groups are assisted directly. For example, there is £2 million to fund ASSIST—advice, support, safety and information services together—and 73 projects are funded under the violence against women funding stream, many of which directly address domestic abuse.

There is also three-year funding for specialist children’s services through the Women’s Aid fund. The equality budget, from which violence against women funding is allocated, has been retained at its 2010-11 level for 2011-12, despite the £1,300 million of cutbacks that John Swinney has had to accommodate in the Scottish budget. Those statistics and the track record say that the issue is of the highest priority for the Government. I hope that that priority is shared by the entire Parliament.

Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)

It is a particular worry that more than half of domestic abuse victims have previously suffered abuse. There are good examples, such as the domestic abuse task force that Strathclyde Police has established, and which targets the more persistent offenders. Can the First Minister cast any further light on what the Government can do throughout Scotland to get into the intractable problem of repeat offenders?

The First Minister

A range of funding streams provide support to look at that particular issue. We obviously have a serious problem, and the statistics bear that out. The Government has had Robert Brown’s support on a range of justice measures that we now see are yielding results, given the 30-year low in recorded crime in Scotland. However, there are still areas where there is much to do, and domestic abuse—violence against women in particular—is one of those areas. I hope that Robert Brown will acknowledge that the variety of projects and funding streams that are being introduced show that we recognise the seriousness of the issue, just as the reporting of it indicates that we now understand the problem better and are seeking to address it in the most serious way.

Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP)

Is the First Minister aware of concerns that have been expressed by Scottish Women’s Aid regarding the effect that alcohol has on domestic violence, including the perception that being drunk can somehow be seen as an excuse for committing such appalling crimes, and the fact that violence is likely to be more severe when the perpetrator is drunk? Does the First Minister agree that it is imperative that we tackle and reduce overconsumption of alcohol if we are to have a serious reduction in those terrible figures?

The First Minister

Yes, I agree with that. Alcohol is not an excuse for domestic abuse or any other crime and can never be considered so. Parliament and society must recognise that the role of alcohol in a range of crimes is hugely significant in Scotland. That is why the Parliament, sooner rather than later, will have to tackle the booze culture in Scotland head on, which would result in remarkable improvements in the social fabric of Scotland on domestic abuse and on many other issues.


Student Support



6. To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government considers that the choices made in its draft budget 2011-12 represent fair support for college students. (S3F-2869)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

Yes, I do. As Jeremy Purvis knows, the draft budget will ensure that not a single student place at college or university will be lost, despite the savage cut in Scotland’s budget that has been imposed by the Liberal and Tory United Kingdom Government. The draft budget also protects the funding for student support, with a guarantee that no student will receive less living support next year than they receive this year. We have provided record funding of £84 million for student support in the current academic year, and the draft budget maintains that for 2011-12. That is a 25 per cent increase over the period of the Administration.

Jeremy Purvis

On Monday, I met three students who are in receipt of bursaries that give them the opportunity to be at college. In my discussions with John Swinney on the draft budget, I have indicated that we will work with the Government to tackle the £1.7 million real-terms reduction in the bursary budget for such students. Given that, as part of the bonuses that Tavish Scott talked about, £4.25 million was paid out at Scottish Water in the past year, is that fair arithmetic?

The First Minister

The arithmetic that counts is the 7.5 per cent increase in the number of places at college and the 25 per cent increase in the student support budget. We always listen to students and others in society who have a case. For example, we listened when we preserved the education maintenance allowance, which has been cancelled by the member’s colleagues south of the border, but which helps tens of thousands of people from poorer backgrounds in Scotland to maintain their places in education.

We listen when we refuse to go down the road that has been taken by the member’s colleagues south of the border, of having tuition fees of £9,000. We also listen when we do not cut college funding by 25 per cent or university funding by 40 per cent over the review period. That is how the Scottish Government is protecting the rights of Scottish students, as has been acknowledged. I say to Jeremy Purvis that there will have to be considerable rearrangement of the Liberal Democrat position before a single student in this country votes for his party at the coming election.

12:30 Meeting suspended until 14:15.

14:15 On resuming—