Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Official Report 783KB pdf

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Topical Question Time

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Scottish Police Authority

1. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the outcome of the Scottish Police Authority meeting on 18 January.(S4T-00221)

Following discussions with the chief constable, the chair and members, I requested that the Scottish Police Authority ensure that the chief constable has the support of police staff in human resources and finance, and that request was accepted by the SPA. Agreement was reached at the SPA board meeting on 18 January and joint work is now taking place to implement what was agreed. The chair and chief constable have both written to the Justice Committee to confirm that agreement has been reached and I look forward to continuing to work with them to ensure a smooth transition to the new service.

I thank the cabinet secretary for that update and, like him, I am pleased that some sort of solution has been found to allow preparations for the new force to progress. Can he share with us the details of his intervention and tell us when exactly he made it and why he chose not to do it sooner? It might also be helpful if he would agree to publish the details of his correspondence with Vic Emery and Chief Constable House on that.

I have had numerous face-to-face and verbal discussions with Vic Emery and Stephen House over recent months, some of which were to do with this issue and some of which were to do with other police matters. I met Mr Emery on Wednesday. Following that discussion, the terms of the changes were signed off by the chief constable and the chair on Friday.

This is fundamentally an issue for the Scottish Police Authority, to which the chief constable is accountable. I am more than happy to provide as much information as I can to Alison McInnes, but the discussions and the agreement here are not between me and the SPA or between me and the chief constable. This is an agreement that was signed off in a public meeting on 18 January and which both the chief constable and the chair have written to the Justice Committee to confirm. They are the people who made the decision; I welcome that and I pay tribute to them.

The chief constable remains cautious, I must say. Although he is a little happier this week after the cabinet secretary’s intervention, it is nevertheless a compromise. Mr House has said:

“the principle is not one I said is best suited to running the police service”.

What are the drawbacks of this compromise?

The chief constable accepted the proposal. He said that had the change not been made, he would have been registering his concerns. The chief constable, the chair and the rest of the board members are all content with the outcome of the decision of 18 January, and I hope that Alison McInnes will welcome that.

I note that Alison McInnes signed up to the motion that was lodged by Graeme Pearson, which raised the issues and problems. They have been resolved by the decision taken by the chief constable and the chair on 18 January. The motion also says that the single police force should be “independent of the SPA”. The SPA is a distinct entity that has responsibility for such things as information technology and forensic science. For that reason it is necessary that the single police force and the SPA work together.

We have seen that matters have been clarified to the chief constable’s satisfaction. On-going discussions will be required as the single police service of Scotland beds in, which, as we have seen, is happening daily. Indeed, even today, the 14 new divisional commanders were announced, whom I welcome and pay tribute to.

I hope that the cabinet secretary will accept that when Parliament voted for the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill, it did not expect that the outcome of its implementation—on Mr MacAskill’s watch—would be two directors of human resources and two directors of finance, not to mention duplication in legal advice, communication and other areas. For clarity and understanding, and for the hundreds, if not thousands, of people who are concerned about their employment in the police service, can the cabinet secretary tell us who will be responsible for a voluntary redundancy scheme for police staff? Will it be the director of human resources who is accountable to the chief constable or will it be the director of human resources who is accountable to the chair of the SPA?

The Scottish Police Authority will be responsible. If, for example, those staff come from forensic science, the process will go through the SPA. If they come from operational policing, it will go through the chief constable. That is the decision that was sought by the chief constable.

I note that, at the time I printed it off, Lewis Macdonald had not signed up to the motion that was lodged by his colleague Graeme Pearson, which calls for the changes that were announced on Friday and which recognises the distinct roles of and differentiation between the SPA and the chief constable.

We have the appropriate balance; there is no duplication, but we must have distinct HR and finance roles because some staff have to account to the chief constable and others have to account to the authority. The authority is, correctly, in charge of forensic science, to ensure that there is separation for the purposes of prosecution. It has also been agreed that the authority will be in charge of IT. That was a matter of agreement between the chair and the chief constable.

I, too, welcome the agreement and the practical progress on establishing a specialised national crime unit and local policing plans. However, is the cabinet secretary aware that, at its meeting tomorrow, the Justice Committee will discuss the on-going scrutiny of the SPA and the chief constable and their interaction, perhaps through an ad hoc committee or a sub-committee? Does he welcome that?

Absolutely. I welcome that and think that both the chief constable and the chair of the SPA welcome it. Whatever doomsayers in the Parliament suggest, significant work is on-going as we move towards a single force. The 14 divisional commanders have been announced today, and significant work is being done on the serious crime division, which will be made public. I was privy to a briefing on that yesterday. Significant work is also being done on matters such as road policing. All that work will make Scotland a better place and allow the police to make cost efficiencies and run things better in what is, after all, a small country. I am sure that the chief constable, the chair of the SPA, other staff and, indeed, police officers will welcome the opportunity to engage with the convener of the Justice Committee and its members to detail what is on-going because, whatever some may suggest, there are significant good-news stories happening.

I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for acknowledging the parliamentary motion that I lodged.

The chair of the SPA indicated in a Justice Committee meeting that, in his view, the democratic oversight of the police service would be provided by his authority and, indeed, his post. I know that, last year, the cabinet secretary evinced support for the need for democratic oversight by the Parliament, and I am pleased that he welcomed the fact that the Justice Committee will discuss that matter tomorrow. Will he confirm that he still welcomes a committee of the Parliament, in whatever form, providing democratic oversight of what is obviously a very contentious issue?

Absolutely. It is clear that the specifics have to be dealt with by the Parliament, not the Government, but I give Mr Pearson an absolute assurance that I agree now, as I did then, that there has to be some democratic oversight. I hope that Parliament can resolve that matter and that we can deliver that as soon as possible.

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Winter Weather

2. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update following the recent winter weather conditions. (S4T-00214)

Obviously, snow has fallen in several areas of Scotland since Friday evening. Although some who have travelled to other parts of the United Kingdom have suffered significant inconvenience, I am pleased to say that the impact in Scotland has been limited, albeit that the impacts have varied from place to place. The north-east of Scotland and the Borders have seen significant impacts.

The weather that we have experienced in Scotland has been less severe than it has been elsewhere, but the limited scale of disruption is in no small part down to the work of staff and volunteers from front-line agencies across Scotland, who have helped to keep Scotland running despite the inclement weather. However, we cannot afford to be complacent. To that end, our multi-agency response team has been active in co-ordinating the work to keep transport networks running. Partner agencies, including volunteer four-by-four users, have been working together on the ground, and the Scottish Government’s resilience arrangements have been operational ever since the Met Office announced an amber warning last week.

On all the good work that all the agencies have done, will an initial assessment be carried out to ensure that what we are doing is the right thing and that, going forward, all that can be done to keep Scotland moving in similar weather conditions is being done? It would be helpful to know that.

That is a very good point. I reassure the member that, whether we are talking about winter weather, the extraordinary winds that we had last year or volcanic ash cloud, we intend to learn from each event. We now have a national lessons database, which has been recognised in the UK and beyond as being one of the few national resilience systems that help to ensure that lessons are not just identified but learned from.

We are confident in the arrangements that continue to be in place, and the Scottish multi-agency response team has been and is active in providing assistance across the network, as well as in co-ordinating information on the impact of the recent weather. Therefore, it is true to say that, this winter, we are benefiting from lessons that were learned previously, but we will continue to learn lessons from this winter as well.

I thank the minister for that further information. I am very pleased to hear that an appraisal system is in place, but I make a plea to the minister to consider further how best local information can be disseminated. In large swathes of Scotland, such as in Mid Scotland and Fife, which I represent, drivers need to be able to traverse many minor routes before they access a trunk road or motorway.

That is a good point. I live in the same area as Annabelle Ewing and have the same experience as many people do of having to use minor roads before reaching trunk roads. The trunk roads have the advantage that they are used more frequently, so snow tends to get cleared from them more quickly and there is not quite the same volume of snow as there is on smaller roads.

Transport Scotland has worked in partnership with the police and the Met Office to develop a severe weather information strategy to warn and inform road users when significant disruption to the road network is expected during extreme weather. The advice and information service will commence when severe weather is forecast. There has been a huge uptake of the internet radio service, which provides real-time traffic and travel information, and there are the variable message signs that we all see on the motorway network. We have a website, smartphone applications, a Twitter service and a dedicated call centre. Also, commercial and other radio stations broadcast the latest information. We are making that information available in as many formats as possible to ensure the maximum information is out and among motorists.

The minister mentioned that a number of roads in the north-east had been affected by the severe weather conditions. Can he provide any further update on what action has been taken to address the problems in that region?

I have mentioned a number of the actions that are being taken, but the member is right to say that there has been an emphasis on the north-east—not unusually. The trunk road network has coped very well, although there is the issue of snow drifting from fields across the carriageway, which has also been the case on some of the minor roads.

It is probably true to say that the north-east has had more local road closures than any other part of Scotland. Again, that is not unusual, but it has implications, for example for schools. In Aberdeenshire, around 45 per cent of schools are closed, which is far more than any other area of Scotland. The same rules apply. We do as much as we can.

We also offer support to local authorities through the provisions that we have on the trunk road network. If a further resource is required that could help there, we are willing to provide it. I am grateful to the various agencies in Grampian and throughout the north-east, which have coped very well in difficult circumstances.

Does the effect of the current weather situation on Heathrow, which is compounded by that airport’s on-going capacity issues—as is the case at other airports in the south-east of England, such as Gatwick and Stansted—indicate that if Scotland had more direct flights, disruption to international passengers might be significantly reduced?

It is a matter of logic that when there is disruption at an airport, and at Heathrow in particular, it is the short-haul passengers who suffer first because their flights are easier to cancel, to put it bluntly, than long-haul flights. We have tried to work with the authorities down south and with airports in Scotland to ensure that we can make the system as resilient as possible. Heathrow has benefited from actions that have been taken previously by Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Glasgow airports to invest in things that keep the airports and their runways open. There has been a particular issue at Heathrow, which suffers from not having the capacity to absorb longer timescales for flights coming in and out. That has been an issue for Scottish users.

However, I assure the member that we will keep in touch on the issue and try to ensure that the interests of those travelling to or from Scotland through Heathrow are looked after.