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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, November 17, 2011


Contents


First Minister’s Question Time


Engagements



1. To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S4F-00270)

I shall have meetings to take forward the Government’s programme for Scotland.

Presiding Officer, 215,000 Scots are unemployed and 100,000 young people are without work. How many Scots have to find themselves on the dole before the First Minister admits that his plan MacB is not working?

The First Minister

The unemployment situation in Scotland is extremely serious. The Government is working flat out to generate the maximum number of jobs, but even Iain Gray would have to accept that the position on aggregate demand in the United Kingdom is set by the UK Government. Within that context, the Scottish Government is being successful. We have lower unemployment, higher employment and lower economic inactivity than the rest of the United Kingdom. That is an important aspect that indicates that some of the efforts we are making are bearing fruit in bringing people back into employment and generating employment for our young people.

Iain Gray

Is that really the limit of the Scottish National Party’s ambition? Is that what they call success, to be not quite as terrible as the Tories? Even given that very low bar, youth unemployment in Scotland is higher than in the UK as a whole. George Osborne is cutting too fast and too deep, but is it not the truth that Alex Salmond is cutting capital budgets and public sector jobs even faster and even deeper than the Tories?

The First Minister

I do not know where to start with Iain Gray, but let us examine his record. In the period when Scottish unemployment was higher than that of the rest of the UK—it was a brief period in comparison with the Labour Party’s record in office—Iain Gray mentioned it seven times, at virtually every First Minister’s question time. Indeed, in his valedictory address as leader of the Opposition, when he thought that he was going into government, he said:

“Here is the figure that matters. Alex Salmond inherited a Scotland with lower unemployment than the rest of the country, and he leaves a Scotland with higher unemployment than the rest of the country.”—[Official Report, 17 March 2011; c 34602-3]

So, on 17 March that was the figure that mattered. Now, at a time when, thanks to the efforts of the Scottish Government to mitigate the impact of Westminster cutbacks, employment in Scotland is higher than that in the rest of the United Kingdom and unemployment is lower, all of a sudden that does not matter any more. Of course it matters. It is one of the figures that matter. As for ambition, my ambition and that of the Scottish National Party is to have this country free to harness its resources and to bring wealth and employment to all our people.

Iain Gray

If any of the 215,000 unemployed people are listening, that will not sound like a plan MacB to them. It will sound like nothing but a lot of MacMince, which is what they have come to expect from their First Minister.

Between last year and this, George Osborne cut capital budgets by 11 per cent; Alex Salmond cut them by 21 per cent. George Osborne got rid of 3.8 per cent of public sector jobs; Alex Salmond got rid of 4.1 per cent. George Osborne cut colleges by 3 or 4 per cent, but Alex Salmond cut ours by 10 per cent. If Alex Salmond cannot give those 100,000 young people a job, he can at least give them the truth. Will he admit that he is cutting faster and deeper than the Tories and that that is why unemployment is rising in Scotland?

The First Minister

Employment in Scotland is higher than it was at this time last year, unemployment is lower than it was at this time last year, and unemployment in the rest of the United Kingdom is at its highest for 20 years.

Let us dispense with the nonsense about capital spending that I have heard Labour Party spokespeople repeat many times over the past few days. Iain Gray should really beware of taking any lines from Richard Baker. The reason that capital investment is being cut in Scotland is that it is allocated using the Barnett formula. It is being cut harder in Scotland and Wales and in the devolved authorities because of the Barnett formula. In other words, the non-devolved departments are getting slightly less capital spending cutbacks than the devolved departments, but before we just blame the Tory-Liberal coalition Government, we should realise that it is proceeding with exactly the capital plans that were set out by the Labour chancellor, Alistair Darling—the man who was going to cut deeper and tougher than Margaret Thatcher. He said in his memoirs that his plans lacked credibility because they were not tough enough.

What are we doing about the Westminster cutback in capital spending? We are shifting £750 million from resource to capital spending, and we have a non-profit-distribution programme that will generate £2.5 billion in capital spending. That gives us a capital spending total that is unique in these islands, rising every year to 2014-15. That is real action to help real people. The Labour Party chooses to engage in collective amnesia about where the capital cuts came from: they came from Westminster Labour rule.

Iain Gray

I see that the First Minister has won a couple of awards in the past week. It would be churlish of me not to congratulate him, but with unemployment in Scotland standing at 215,000 and at 100,000 for young people, if there was a complacent politician of the year award, he would run away with it.

The First Minister likes to talk about a mythical independence generation. This generation is on its own, okay—100,000 of them. He will give them a wristband that says, “It’s starting”, but he will not give them a start, a job, an opportunity or a future.

I see that Alex Salmond would like to be called Prime Minister in a separate Scotland. Does not that tell us everything that we need to know about his Government’s priorities? When will he stop thinking about his next job and give our young people a first job so that they can make a start in life?

The First Minister

Let us look at the track record of Scottish National Party ministers, who are working hard to generate employment in Scotland, and the great international companies that have decided in the past few months to locate their activities here: Mitsubishi, Doosan, State Street, BNY Mellon, Gamesa, Dell, INEOS/PetroChina, Aker, FMC Technologies, Vion Hall’s, Avaloq, Amazon and TAQA. Let us consider all those companies and the efforts of SNP ministers and our officials in gathering that investment to Scotland. What has the Labour Party been doing? It is in cahoots with the Tories, trying to talk Scotland down at every opportunity.

The Labour Party says that responsibility lies with only the Scottish Government, despite the fact that it knows full well where the cutbacks are coming from. Its five-point plan for growth gives the game away, of course. I have already dealt with capital investment, but the other four points that Labour’s plan for growth entails are all requests of the Westminster Government. Labour in opposition is lobbying the Westminster Government because it knows that that is where the economic power lies at present over the Scottish economy and the Scottish people. That is why the SNP’s ambition is to harness Scotland’s resources and put them to work for the Scottish people, and that is why Iain Gray will never be called First Minister.

Iain Gray

Let the First Minister not dare call it talking Scotland down when I speak up for 100,000 unemployed young Scots. Somebody must speak for them, because neither he nor his supine back benches are doing so.

Let us look at his ministers’ record. Over the past two years, the number of people unemployed is worse; the unemployment rate is worse; the employment rate is worse; and the economic activity rate is worse. That is their record. Not only should ministers be ashamed of it, but the First Minister should tell us now what he is going to do about it.

The First Minister

I note that Iain Gray has changed to talking about two years. Otherwise, he would have to acknowledge that in Scotland—uniquely, in the United Kingdom—unemployment has gone down and employment has gone up over the past year.

In the UK, Labour is in power in one place: Wales. I am not going to criticise the Government of Wales, because it is under the same strictures of Westminster cutbacks that we are. If Labour has the answer to economic problems and unemployment, why are unemployment and youth unemployment in Wales higher than they are in Scotland? If Labour has the magic solutions, why is it not implementing them in the one place in these islands where it is still in government? The failure to come forward with answers when in government in the UK, or to realise that it was in cahoots with the Tories in trying to discourage investment in Scotland, is why Labour failed in the election and why it is on the route to extinction in this country.


Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)



2. To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S4F-00277)

I have no plans to meet the secretary of state in the near future.

Ruth Davidson

Forty-eight hours ago, Transport Scotland, a finger’s-length organisation of the Scottish National Party Government, published its plans for wrecking our railways by having slower trains, fewer stations, more crowding and longer journeys for passengers up and down the country. However, this morning, we read of a screeching U-turn and the SNP Government’s attempts to run a mile from its own consultation. I see that the first page of the document carries lovely pictures of Alex Neil MSP and Keith Brown MSP. How can anyone have the confidence to invest long-term in Scotland’s future when SNP ministers are talking down our railways?

The First Minister

There is a clue to the document’s status in the reference to “consultation” on the front page. I really am surprised by Ruth Davidson. I point out, for example, that page 6 of the document, which sets out options for sleeper services—which is what, I should add, the document is meant to be doing—suggests that they could be reduced or have increased “financial support”. Understandably, some of our press interpreted that as going only one way. This is a document of options from Transport Scotland; SNP ministers’ view on the railways will be published when the consultation ends at the beginning of March.

However, I say to Ruth Davidson that although the consultation is a very important part of the process and although we will listen to the responses to it, I do not think that we need a crystal ball to see the direction of travel in Scotland’s railways, the past four and a half years of which are laid out in the document. This is a railway with new stations, expanding passenger numbers and dramatic increases in the amount of track and availability of rail services, and that is the course that SNP ministers will continue to set.

Ruth Davidson

I understand very well that this is a Government consultation. Indeed, that is my very point: it is a Government consultation from whose words and terms the Government is now running a mile, saying, “A wee quango did it and ran away.”

We all want Scotland’s railways to be fit for the 21st century and to attract long-term investment. However, as the Neil-Brown document itself admits, there is a cloud hanging over such investment. On page 21, the document suggests that we might get only a short-term deal for our railways because investors could be worried about the unanswered constitutional question. So, there we have it. SNP ministers have come clean and the First Minister should come clean right now. Failing to answer the constitutional question is turning off long-term investment in Scotland. The SNP’s dither and delay on the constitutional question could sabotage long-term investment in Scotland, and this document says so.

The First Minister

What people will look at is the contrast, not just in the past few years but over the next few years, between rail services in Scotland, which have been expanding—and where passenger fares, for example, have been set at retail prices index plus 1 per cent—and the situation in England. I do not know whether Ruth Davidson is aware that the Conservative and Liberal Administration’s position on fares in England is RPI plus 3 per cent. We have an expanding revenue base for the railways rising to £794.7 million in 2013-14.

I am delighted that Ruth Davidson has taken the opportunity to rather quietly repeat some of the nonsense that has been coming from her colleagues in Westminster and the argument about investors being deterred from Scotland. I have read out the substantial list of substantial international companies that are investing in Scotland. I have also noted the lobbying from Conservatives in the north-east of England—the most senior Conservatives, who are lobbying the chancellor because they are jealous of Scotland’s success in job creation.

I hope that Ruth Davidson, at some point in her new leadership, will distance herself from her own party colleagues—lobbying her own chancellor—who are trying to remove jobs from Scotland and take them elsewhere. I hope that the Conservative Party in this Parliament will stick up for Scotland and disassociate itself from the views that are being expressed by the Conservative Party in the north-east of England.

Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)

I refer the First Minister to Lord Carloway’s report, which was published today. In paragraph 32 of the executive summary, Lord Carloway recommends that the High Court should not be able to refuse a referral from the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, as it can currently do under the Criminal Procedure (Legal Assistance, Detention and Appeals) (Scotland) Act 2010. He recommends that that provision should be repealed. Is the First Minister minded to accept that recommendation?

The First Minister

We have to consider Lord Carloway’s report in some detail before giving a ministerial response. It is a deeply detailed document with more than 400 pages of detailed assessment and potentially far-reaching implications across the range of our criminal law. Those who have had the opportunity to look at Lord Carloway’s review will recognise that, in a range of areas, he is pointing out that decisions made piecemeal by a number of courts, including the Cadder judgment, have serious implications for Scottish criminal law. Therefore his report was designed—and, I think, fits the task—to set out options for this Parliament to consider. The correct way to proceed is to consider Lord Carloway’s review in detail and then, if necessary—and I think that it will be appropriate—bring to this Parliament the requisite changes that are required to rebalance the judicial process in Scotland.

Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)

The First Minister is aware of the circumstances surrounding the tragic death of my constituent Alison Hume in Galston in 2008 and the fatal accident inquiry report that was published yesterday by Sheriff Leslie. In light of Sheriff Leslie’s comments about significant failures in handling the incident by senior officers within Strathclyde Fire and Rescue, will the First Minister assure me that there will be a comprehensive review of the rescue capabilities of that service that puts saving lives first and foremost?

The First Minister

This whole Parliament would want, once again, to join in issuing its condolences to Alison Hume’s family and friends over the circumstances of her death. Sheriff Leslie’s determination is extremely detailed and carries many important lessons and issues. We give our sheriffs in Scotland very substantial powers in fatal accident inquiries—I think that that is the right thing to do. The institution of sheriffs is well recognised and well respected, and therefore the determinations that sheriffs make have to be accepted by all parties. I do not think that they should be second-guessed, and people will be looking for an indication of the action that must now follow.

Sheriff Leslie’s fatal accident inquiry raised important issues surrounding the operational procedures in Strathclyde Fire and Rescue. Under section 44 of the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005, ministers may request that Her Majesty’s chief inspector of fire and rescue authorities conduct an inquiry into the manner in which an authority is carrying out its functions.

Given the serious nature of the determination by Sheriff Leslie, I have asked the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs to make such a request of the chief inspector. He will carry out a comprehensive inquiry, and the report will be laid before the Parliament. It will then be for ministers to decide what direction, if any, can be made under the powers provided by the 2005 act. That is the most serious course of action that ministers can take under the legislation, and I believe that the circumstances of the case reflect and require it.

Let me add that, although Sheriff Leslie’s determination laid bare a number of key organisational and procedural points that are of great seriousness and had tragic consequences in this case, there is nothing in the determination that questions the fact that every single one of the firefighters and fire officers on site had the aim and intention of rescuing Alison Hume. There is also nothing in the determination to deflect from the general admiration and support that we give the fire services and our other blue-light services, which do such a fantastic job on Scotland’s behalf.


Teachers (Industrial Action)



3. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s position is on the Educational Institute of Scotland’s call for a ballot on industrial action about proposed changes to the McCrone agreement. (S4F-00279)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

The Scottish negotiating committee for teachers is due to discuss the McCormac review of teacher employment on 23 November. The EIS and the Scottish Government will both be involved in those discussions. In my view, any suggestion of strike action by the EIS as a result of the review is therefore premature.

Ken Macintosh

The First Minister’s colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has repeatedly talked about the importance of high-quality teaching and the professionalism of our teaching staff. How does freezing the pay of teachers, cutting the pay of supply teachers and now changing their conditions of employment improve the quality and professionalism of teachers?

The First Minister

The sacrifices that the public sector is making are being made not just by teachers but by all public sector workers. I do not want to go into the economics of where the problem came from, but I think that even a Labour member with his head firmly in the sand should recognise that the Labour Party had a substantial role in creating the economic circumstances in which the situation has arisen.

I do not believe that a review that brings forward changes to procedures and working practices can bring forward positions that are not capable of being discussed and implemented. The basis of the McCormac review is to find procedures that will improve the situation in our classrooms and for our professionals. I bow to no one in my recognition of the commitment and professionalism of the teaching profession.

I will add this: the attitude that the United Kingdom Government has struck on the pensions issue has rather poisoned the atmosphere in negotiations with public service workers that are essential if the integrity and value of our public services are to be maintained.


Inward Investment



4. To ask the First Minister whether overseas companies are continuing to invest in Scotland. (S4F-00265)

Yes. I read out a substantial list of major overseas companies earlier—[Interruption.] I will resist the overwhelming cry from the Conservative benches to read out the list again because you may intervene, Presiding Officer. [Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister

On Tuesday, I opened the new Amazon fulfilment centre in Dunfermline and the new customer service centre in Edinburgh. Those investments alone will create more than 3,000 permanent and temporary jobs in Scotland. I hope that, whatever views members have on a variety of political issues, the Parliament will unite at least in welcoming the investment by Amazon and the other great companies, expressing more confidence in the future of Scotland than is perhaps held by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in Westminster.

Kenneth Gibson

Does the First Minister share my disappointment that, whenever he announces significant new investment or the creation of new jobs, rather than applaud the hard work of those who strive to bring such companies to Scotland or welcome the positive impact on families, Opposition members sit silently with long faces, disdainful of good news? Does he agree that, rather than constantly scaremongering, Opposition members should show the same confidence in the Scottish workforce as Allan Lyall, the vice-president of European operations at Amazon—

Can we have the question, Mr Gibson?

When asked about the prospects of Amazon investing in an independent Scotland, he said:

“We are looking for great people that look after our customers the way they need to, and as long as that continues we’ll be in Scotland.”

The First Minister

The member might wish to know that, although the success of those investments is not recognised on the Opposition benches in this Parliament, it is recognised by the Tory party in the north-east of England. Earlier, I mentioned Mrs Arkley, the senior Conservative in the north-east of England. She has engaged in a range of well-documented activities, including going to the Conservative conference in Manchester on 5 October to lobby the chancellor about the success and firepower of Scotland in attracting thousands of jobs.

I want to mention two aspects of that. First, if north-east of England Tories can recognise the success in attracting major international companies to Scotland, at least the Tories in this Parliament should try to recognise the same thing. Secondly, the dangerous thing is that that lady, after lobbying the chancellor, said:

“Ministers have agreed to look at this”.

What action do Westminster ministers have in mind to try to dissuade major international companies? Was that the real reason for the chancellor’s comments last Sunday?


Unemployment (Women)



5. To ask the First Minister what measures the Scottish Government is taking to tackle female unemployment in light of concerns that women are being disproportionately affected by job losses. (S4F-00271)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

It should be noted that, over the year to September, unemployment decreased in Scotland by 14,000 while it increased in the rest of the United Kingdom. Of that drop in unemployment, 13,000 was a drop in female unemployment. The Government is focused on jobs and growth and is taking a range of actions to ensure that more women and men get the job chances that they need. For example, in 2010-11, nearly 10,000 women started a modern apprenticeship, which represents 45 per cent of the starts; we have made a commitment to having no compulsory redundancies in the Scottish Government and the national health service and to a living wage for the lowest paid in the public sector; and we have established a £1.5 million fund for families and communities to support wraparound childcare and community crèches. That is real positive action from a real Government in Scotland.

Richard Baker

Given that yesterday we found out that unemployment in Scotland increased for the second month, does the First Minister share my concern that, along with the worrying figures on young people who are out of work, which include a rise in female youth unemployment, female workers more generally have been particularly affected by recent increases in unemployment? Will he outline what further action he intends to take to deal with the problem? What discussions has he had with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on the issue, given that the 6.3 per cent cut to local government budgets is likely to affect female workers disproportionately?

The First Minister

We take those matters very seriously. I have discussed them with COSLA and the Scottish Trades Union Congress. I note that, because of the timing of the release of unemployment figures, Richard Baker had to lodge his question before he saw the statistics, which were released yesterday. They show that, in the July to September period, female employment in Scotland rose by 9,000 and female unemployment fell by 4,000. Female unemployment in Scotland among those aged 16 and over is 6.2 per cent, whereas it is 7.5 per cent in the United Kingdom as a whole. Just so we are absolutely clear, I point out that I do not regard 6.2 per cent unemployment among women in Scotland as in any way acceptable, which is why I want to do something about it by having the real economic powers that this Parliament requires to act for all our people.


Fossil Fuel Levy



6. To ask the First Minister how the Scottish Government plans to use the £103 million released from the fossil fuel levy account. (S4F-00264)

Say thank you.

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

I hear, “Say thank you,” from the Tory benches. I am delighted to say that, after a huge amount of negotiation, the Westminster Government has decided in its munificence to give Scotland half of the money to which it is entitled. That is amazing. There is a £202 million fund of Scotland’s money paid by Scotland’s generators and it is right and proper that we did a deal to try to release some of it, but it is reasonable to say that the Labour Government would never agree to such a deal.

Does it not speak volumes for the attitude of David McLetchie—I see him away in the back benches now; I do not know whether that is significant—and others that they think that it should be counted a tremendous triumph to get 50 per cent of Scotland’s money? Would it not be better if we could spend 100 per cent of Scotland’s money?

Maureen Watt

Given that the long-overdue release of that £103 million has been made possible only by the Scottish Government agreeing that the other half of the fossil fuel levy money that the Treasury holds would fund the creation of the green investment bank, does the First Minister believe that the case for Edinburgh to be the home of that bank is overwhelming?

The First Minister

Yes. As First Minister, I express a consensual point to unite the Parliament: Fergus Ewing and I have written to the United Kingdom Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Vince Cable, making the point that the fact that the other 50 per cent of Scotland’s money will help to capitalise the green investment bank is yet another reason for the bank to be headquartered in Scotland.

12:31 Meeting suspended.

14:15 On resuming—