St Andrew's Day
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S2M-754, in the name of Donald Gorrie, on national celebrations on St Andrew's day. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament believes that many aspects of Scottish life would benefit from the adoption of St Andrew's Day as a focus for national celebration; recognises the value that similar national days, such as Thanksgiving Day in the United States of America, bring to other countries, and considers that the Parliament and the Scottish Executive should work with all relevant bodies to make St Andrew's Day, or the weekend nearest to it, a basis for educational, cultural and sporting activity, family reunions, community events, the promotion of tourism and Scottish products abroad and for developing existing celebrations of Scottish life held abroad.
I am very happy to speak to my motion. First, the motion does not ask for a holiday. I originally asked for a holiday, but the Executive—for whatever reason—does not seem to be keen on instituting another holiday, so I have dropped that idea. That is an issue to pursue on another day. Secondly, I wish Scotland to promote Scottishness vigorously, and if the general consensus—either in the Parliament or in the country as a whole—is that we should develop Burns day instead of St Andrew's day, I am quite relaxed about that. Nevertheless, I am here to argue the case for developing the time round about St Andrew's day—what in old Scots would have been known as St Andrewstide—as a time of celebration.
St Andrew became the patron saint of Scotland in a slightly dubious way. Relics were brought back to St Andrews by St Regulus, and in those days relics of that sort were a very valuable thing. A tourist trade was developed—the Fife tourist board was obviously doing good work—at a time when the main form of travel was the pilgrimage. A lot of pilgrims were attracted to St Andrews to see the relics and, as part of that, St Andrew was promoted as the great Scottish figure. Although it was a spin, it was a spin about 800 years ago and the passage of time gives St Andrew a good degree of credibility.
My proposal has many aspects, which relate to our past, present and future. Many Scots are woefully ignorant about their history and culture. There are many good things in Scotland's past, although there are some bad things in our history too.
We should organise a big programme of events on or around St Andrew's day, involving schools and colleges. Many clubs and societies in Scotland that have lectures and discussions could promote Scottish subjects. National and local museums could arrange exhibitions relating to Scottishness and the contribution that is made by local people to a particular activity. Theatres could stage old and new Scottish plays and concerts could feature Scottish music. Above all, there could be events in communities to celebrate the history of the town, village or city in question, the good things that happened in the past and how we got where we are today.
We could celebrate the present by having lots of high-quality sports activities in Scotland and abroad. We could focus on family reunions, just as American people do on thanksgiving day, which is a feature of life in the United States. Local reunions could also take place.
I am interested in the concept of Scottishness, which might otherwise be described as nationality. Does Donald Gorrie agree that for contemporary Scots, the concept of Scottishness is essentially a cultural phenomenon?
Yes, I think that that is right. The promotion of this sort of national celebration would help to tease out the many different concepts of Scottishness.
We have many immigrants, as we have had throughout our history. The Flemings taught us to develop towns and the Vikings did many good things, as well as burning things down. The influence of Jews, Italians and other groups has meant that we are a mixed lot. We have a varied history and culture. Scottishness is like an elephant—one knows it when one sees it, even if one cannot describe it.
A reunion of people from Auchtermuchty, for example, would attract people who have gone to England or abroad from Auchtermuchty to come back for a big hooley. Such an event could be very constructive.
I would like us to focus, in particular, on the contribution of Scots to other countries. We have made a huge contribution that is often not recognised, although many books about emigration from Scotland have been published in recent times. Scotland's big contribution to the Commonwealth did not just involve conquering other countries because we have good soldiers. Scottish people have been involved in the development of the Commonwealth at all levels. Many Canadian Prime Ministers have been of Scottish descent, for example, as have many Canadian small grade farmers. We have made a huge contribution to Commonwealth countries at all levels.
Many Scots went to various parts of Europe to develop all sorts of things in Russia, Poland, France and Germany. Scots have made a big contribution to the development of engineering, gardens, architecture and fighting in such countries. We could have parties with Russian people to celebrate the contribution we have made in Russia. Other events could be promoted in Russia to celebrate the contribution that we have made there.
I suggest that we concentrate those things on the weekend nearest to St Andrew's day and on the days leading up to it. The Executive and the Parliament could consider establishing a committee of non-politicians—people who are leading lights in various spheres—to promote and co-ordinate this sort of activity. Many people would give time and energy to that. As a result of that, we could be proud of being Scots, because we have a lot to celebrate. We could look forward to a better Scotland and we could enjoy ourselves. Those are all pluses.
I ask for speeches to be kept to four minutes. Given that I could not call Chris Ballance in the previous debate, I will call him first now. Did I catch you out, Mr Ballance?
Entirely.
I am happy to support the motion and I thank Mr Gorrie for introducing it for debate. What he is proposing would put us in a win-win situation: it is all benefits and no downside. The benefits are clear for tourism and culture and there would also be benefits in having community activities that focus on St Andrew's day and on Scotland and are about getting people involved in their communities, which is a cornerstone of democracy that we must encourage. There would also be benefits in holidays—the benefits of useful positive leisure time cannot be overstated. We need extra quality time with our families and time to pursue our hobbies, interests and research.
Life is not just about work and earning money. We heard this morning about a report from the New Economics Foundation, which talks about the benefits of using alternatives to gross domestic product and measuring the success of society in terms of not just economic performance but well-being—how we fit into our society, how we work as a community and how happy we feel. Cultural and leisure-time activity has a real bearing on that. We must focus not just on economic life and our working week but on what we do when we are not working. Although many MSPs are guilty of seeing our job as infinite, it is important for us all to ensure that we take holidays and encourage holidays in general.
We should encourage people to take short-break holidays that can stimulate the local Scottish tourism economy and encourage us to go out and see more of the world immediately around us rather than fly off to the sun for a week. Points have been made about the importance of an iconic holiday such as St Andrew's day in promoting Scotland around the world in the same way that thanksgiving is used to promote the United States and Bastille day is used to promote France. The motion is correct to call for St Andrew's day as a time to promote Scotland. I might prefer to have an extra day's holiday in May when the weather is better, but St Andrew's day is fixed and what Donald Gorrie proposes is an excellent target for us.
I congratulate Donald Gorrie on introducing the subject for debate, as it is important. I apologise for somehow having forgotten to sign up to the motion, as I agree thoroughly with everything that it says. Two years ago, I lodged a St Andrew's day motion, which unfortunately was not selected for debate. I was prompted to lodge the motion after I attended a Children in Scotland event in Glasgow called "Equal Futures" on St Andrew's day, 2001. The event was attended by schoolchildren from throughout Scotland and was held with a view to building racial equality. At the time, it struck me that it would be great to designate our national day—which, like Chris Ballance, I would like to be a holiday—as a day of celebration of Scotland's cultural diversity.
As Allan Wilson said, that is something that should be embraced. I thought that it would be great if everyone could participate in that and if we had a specific time when we could say, "Scotland is very diverse." We have a wonderful indigenous culture, but we can also embrace all the other cultures that are now in our country. I do not think that that view is very different from the meaning behind Donald Gorrie's motion.
Donald Gorrie mentioned Scottishness. Most of us feel that and I would hope that people whose families have not lived here for generations can share that feeling because they live here and take part in society.
Two or three weeks ago, I was in Wales on St David's day. I cannot remember what date that is—
It is 1 March.
I thank Margaret Ewing.
I was struck by how evident people's sense of Welshness is on their national day. I was in south Wales and I understand that the feeling is much stronger in north Wales. Practically every child I saw that day, from babies upwards—apart from the adolescents, who are at that difficult stage when youngsters do not want to do anything anyway and so completely ignore such things—was walking about either in full Welsh national costume or at least with a cap, for the boys, or a hat, for the girls. All the local shops were selling the costumes, both cheap and expensive versions. I thought that it was wonderful. There was a real sense of Welshness. Schoolchildren were going to school in their national dress and talking about St David and other things that promote their Welshness. I thought to myself, "There's a campaign for this coming St Andrew's day."
We could all wear kilts.
It would be great if our kids could do even as small a thing as that in recognition of what their country is and could promote their Scottishness in such a way.
I hope that I have given people something to talk about. We should be promoting Scottishness and Scotland in the period around St Andrew's day but we should also be aware of the wonderful cultural diversity that we have in this country and should be trying to find a way to make absolutely everyone feel that their participation is valid.
There are worse places to be born and brought up than in St Andrews, the old Fife town that gives Scotland its patron saint and national day. Sadly, this week's health statistics suggest that St Andrews natives are likely to live 13 years longer than people who are brought up in Shettleston. St Andreans can use those bonus years to potter around the ruins of the old cathedral that was built on the site were the bones of the Apostle Andrew were allegedly brought from Patras in Greece. Thanks largely to a few ancient finger bones, St Andrews was already the ecclesiastical capital of Scotland when Edinburgh was still a rickle of mud huts beside a swamp under the castle hill.
However, what does all that have to do with commemorating St Andrew's day and what does 30 November have to do with St Andrew? The short answer is nothing. Andrew is the patron saint of a number of countries and, more than 1,000 years ago, the Catholic Church simply chose 30 November as an appropriate day on which to celebrate him. Because of such an arbitrary reason, we find ourselves with a national day that makes little sense either historically or commercially.
For several years before coming to the Scottish Parliament, I served on the St Andrew's week committee of the city of St Andrews. A number of local business people, councillors and others worked tirelessly to translate the week leading up to 30 November into a true commemoration of Scotland's patron saint and our national day. That committee still does excellent work and many artistic and cultural events are attracted to the town. However, in terms of visitor numbers and extra business for St Andrews, the problem is that 30 November is simply too close to Christmas. In a national context, the same problem would arise. It is on the date, rather than the principle, that I question Donald Gorrie's motion. Three weeks before Christmas is simply the wrong time of year to have a national day.
Has the St Andrew's week committee approached the Catholic Church to find out what would be involved in changing the date?
I am afraid that it has not. I do not know the answer to the problem, but our experience was that the day is a little too close to Christmas. Of course, that does not mean that the town of St Andrews should not continue to celebrate on 30 November, as it has done in the past. I would not have thought that we could persuade the Vatican to change the apostle's commemorative date.
The luck of the Irish has given them today, 17 March, as St Patrick's day. That date, which comes a month before Easter, would have been an excellent national day for Scotland. I imagine that the Executive might see 6 April, the date of the declaration of Scottish independence at Arbroath in 1320, as too political to be a national day.
Despite Donald Gorrie's desire for a consensus, I am certainly not against another day's holiday. Compared with many European countries, Scotland is badly served with holidays. There is an obvious alternative, which retains the link with a national saint. I favour 9 June, which is St Columba's day. It was St Columba who brought Christianity to this pagan place called Scotland in 564, a couple of centuries before St Regulus allegedly brought Andrew's bones to what became St Andrews; it is more than a month after May day and a month before Scots kids go on holiday. It seems to me to be an ideal day on every count for the early summer celebration that members have requested. I commend 9 June as a twin national saints' day to commemorate St Andrew and St Columba.
I congratulate Donald Gorrie on securing this debate and on having two Cabinet ministers come to listen to his speech, particularly as they are both Labour members. They are obviously back in love with Donald.
I agree with Ted Brocklebank about the time of year. It would be much better for tourism and for the international marketing of Scotland if the day was at a time of year when we could encourage people to come and enjoy some Scottish sunshine rather than some winter weather.
The important point is demonstrated by what happens on 25 January each year. Burns night has no official recognition, although I am sure that the Executive is putting money into the new centre in Alloway in Ayrshire. Burns suppers are a good example of how something can grow from nothing into an international phenomenon. Many people who have been to Burns suppers in Scotland seem to be under the impression that they are held only in Scotland, but I am told that more Burns suppers are held in Russia than in Scotland. They are held the world over, in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, in parts of Asia and in parts of the middle east. They are held not just to commemorate the bard and everything that he stood for—his philosophy, his poetry and his music; they also promote Scotland effectively.
St Andrew's day, whenever it is during the year, is an opportunity for us to market Scotland, but it is not properly seized upon. Unlike Burns suppers and hogmanay, most people in Scotland do not celebrate St Andrew's day. I dare say that many people do not know when it is, and that is a matter for regret. It is an ideal opportunity for us to celebrate what happens in Scotland but, more important, it is an opportunity to market Scotland abroad.
Last week, the minister announced the rejigging of the area tourist boards and the additional money that is being allocated to VisitScotland. As we know, and as Ted Brocklebank said, St Andrew is the patron saint not only of Scotland but of many other countries. There might be opportunities for us to twin with some of those countries and to undertake joint initiatives to encourage tourism between those countries and Scotland. Tourism and marketing initiatives are often held on pegs such as that. Chris Ballance said that we should encourage people to take weekend breaks in Scotland—I say to him that I hope that they will come on low-cost flights—which could significantly boost tourism.
After the debate, most members in the chamber are off to the Signet library to celebrate St Patrick's day. We could learn much from how the Irish have turned that day into an international day to promote Ireland. I used to live in Boston, where St Patrick's day is a great day for everybody, as is thanksgiving. Today, we will go to the Signet library, whose ceiling and internal architecture compare to those of other halls such as the Sistine chapel, albeit on a much smaller scale. We have much to show people—not only those from abroad, but people from Scotland. Great national treasures such as the Signet library are open to too few people—often to the elite of Edinburgh and its surrounding area.
I hope that Donald Gorrie's idea of celebrating St Andrew's day is taken up and that the day becomes a national holiday. I hope that the Parliament takes the holiday on a Wednesday or Thursday every year. We should use that opportunity. Many people might laugh at the debate, but it is worth while. The idea is worth while, because it provides yet another opportunity to promote Scotland. The more we promote Scotland, the more we generate economic activity, jobs, wealth and all the rest of it. I hope that the minister will follow up last week's initiative with a new initiative this week.
No one can be in any doubt but that today is St Patrick's day. We need only walk down the streets not of Dublin, but of Edinburgh, to know that—we can see people celebrating Ireland's national day here. We can learn lessons from that, as Alex Neil said. Throughout the world, everybody knows St Patrick's day. It is used greatly to promote Ireland and it is used internally in Ireland to bring great economic benefit. It is estimated that in Dublin alone, last year's St Patrick's day celebrations were worth €80 million of additional tourism business. That sum is not to be sneezed at. It is significantly higher than the amount of money that we received from the MTV celebrations in Edinburgh, although that sum is not to be sneezed at either. I will return to the great tourism opportunities that are available.
This year, it is estimated that the St Patrick's day celebrations will last for seven days, but I suspect that because of events on the rugby field 10 days ago, the celebrations probably started then. St Patrick's day is a big celebration that is worth a great deal. As I said, we can learn much from that.
As has been said, we must bear it in mind that St Andrew is the patron saint not only of Scotland, but of Greece and Russia. He is also the patron saint of several interesting combinations, such as burgundy and gout—I do not know whether they are meant to be linked—fishmongers and fishermen and singers and sore throats. He is the patron saint of some strange linkages, but we can learn from that because we, too, can create linkages to promote St Andrews and Scotland.
I disagree with many of Ted Brocklebank's and Alex Neil's comments about the date of 30 November. That is not a bad time to do something to boost Scotland's tourism industry, because it is not a good time of the year for the tourism industry. We do not need to boost tourism in the peak season, but we do need to consider boosting off-peak tourism. For much of Europe, the first weekend in December is a holiday period. It is not a holiday in Scotland or the rest of the United Kingdom, but there is no reason why we should not promote that time as a holiday or celebration period.
Are the member and the minister aware of the proposal to start celebrating festivals for tourism with St Andrew's day on 30 November and to take that through to Burns day on 25 January? That would place the Hogmanay celebrations in the middle of two months which ordinarily have poor tourism activity. That is a great opportunity.
Absolutely. We should use 30 November as the gateway to the festive season and we should start those celebrations in St Andrews and elsewhere in Scotland. We have great opportunities to do that, which we should consider.
Some times of the year have too many holidays and other times do not have enough. By the end of November, I desperately need a holiday and would love the opportunity that St Andrew's day would provide. I would be happy to exchange another holiday for that, as the Scottish Parliament has done. It has moved a holiday for its staff to provide a holiday on St Andrew's day or the Friday nearest to it. I would like the Scottish Executive to consider bringing its practice into line with that. I suggest that a Friday holiday rather than a Monday holiday should be considered, because whether the holiday is on a Friday or a Monday might make a difference to the type of holiday.
I end by calling for the town of St Andrews to be the focus of the new national celebration. As Ted Brocklebank said, St Andrews already does a great deal to promote and celebrate St Andrew's day with the St Andrew's week celebrations. I believe that St Andrews could be an international focus for those celebrations. It is a place that we could promote internationally and somewhere for the public to come to enjoy St Andrew's day. We should be considering how we can develop the St Andrew's week into a national celebration. Tourism could benefit greatly from developing St Andrew's day as a national celebration and I hope also as a national holiday.
I will be brief. I say to my friend Alex Neil that I certainly know when St Andrew's day is because Fergus and I got married on St Andrew's day 20 years ago. I was not sure whether we did that to remind him that it was St Andrew's day or in the hope that he would remember our wedding anniversary—we all know what men are like. I agree with comments that have been made about the weather: I remember standing chittering outside the church after my wedding service. However, I do not think that the weather in Scotland should mean that we move any of our important festivals. We cannot rely on the weather in Scotland; that is the reality. If we moved St Andrew's day to June, rain could be coming down in buckets. We have to take that on board and be courageous enough to mark that particular day.
There are many myths associated with St Andrew, our patron saint, and they have been around for 800 years. Having a patron saint is important for any nation; it is part of the identity of the nation. There is the story about the saltire appearing at Bannockburn and there are others. That is an important part of our history and we should be proud of that history.
Allan Wilson talked about museums and libraries. Our having pride in our history does no damage whatever to the concept of a multicultural society. We are talking about attracting people to Scotland: those people will want to understand what Scotland is, so we should be proud of our history, although there are some events that I would prefer were not in the history books.
We have been discussing promoting Scotland worldwide through the St Andrew's day celebrations. The European and External Relations Committee is considering that closely at the moment. A great deal of emphasis has been placed on tartan day, which seems to have expanded into tartan week; no doubt it will turn into tartan month at some point. We have not done enough to promote the concept of our patron. Greece and Russia have been mentioned by other members—those countries have genuine festivals to celebrate St Andrew.
I am not so sure about Donald Gorrie's proposal that a committee be set up. Committees sometimes sit in ivory towers and do not get on with the work. However, there should be some co-ordination with well-established organisations such as the Saltire Society, the National Trust for Scotland and other Caledonian societies throughout the world. We could do a great deal more by using such existing organisations.
Chris Ballance struck the right note when he spoke about the need to involve communities. In my constituency we have effective museums that hold pageants every so often because, when Robert the Bruce became King of Scots, the only title he would take was Earl of Elgin. We have well-supported and promoted museums in our area, to which youngsters come along with great enthusiasm.
During the European and External Relations Committee's investigations into the promotion of Scotland worldwide, people kept talking about the tartan-and-shortbread-tin image. I find that irritating because a shortbread factory happens to employ a large number of people in my constituency and in Nora Radcliffe's constituency. We should not be ashamed of wearing our kilts, of learning Scottish Highland dancing or of learning all about our history. We should promote all that.
Linda Fabiani spoke about St David's day. Today is St Patrick's day and if we buy five pints of Guinness, we get a free funny hat. Also, England has St George's day, which is on 23 April—people will now understand that I know that. Indeed, the Scottish National Party's previous vice-convener, the sadly missed Dr Allan Macartney, managed to persuade a flag company to start producing English flags for football fans and for those who wanted to celebrate St George's day.
As a graduate of the University of St Andrews, I naturally support Donald Gorrie's excellent motion and I congratulate him on lodging it for debate. I am sure that my tutors at my alma mater would have described me as being on a permanent holiday when I was a student there.
I am glad to hear that Margaret Ewing was married on 30 November. That is the date on which my brother got married last year, so it is a big date in our calendar, too. On the subject of my brother, I am reliably informed by Iain Smith that there is a St Andrews cheese, which I am told is of very high quality. Donald Gorrie's suggestion that the day should be a celebration of food and drink is therefore music to my ears.
If I may correct Donald Gorrie on one thing, he said that St Regulus brought the relics to St Andrews. According to the myth, St Regulus is supposed to have brought the relics and to have given them to King Oengus mac Fergus, who reigned from 731 to 761. The only trouble with that is that St Regulus lived circa 150 to 200 years earlier.
Perhaps he was long lived.
I doubt that he was that long lived.
I suggest that the correct history is that the relics were originally in the collection of St Acca, who was bishop of Hexham, and that he took them into Pictland when he was driven from Hexham in 732. However, I am sure that Donald Gorrie and I could entertain ourselves with that debate for some time.
St Columba and other saints have been mentioned quite correctly and interestingly, but I add to those St Ninian. As an aside, I want to mention that, although Donald Gorrie's suggestion is a wholly good idea—I back the date of 30 November—I think that we should also remember our weer saints. For example, St Nicholas, or Santa Claus, is the patron saint of Aberdeen. Santa Claus was a very generous man, so it figures that he should be that city's patron. St Duthus, or St Duthac, is the patron saint of my home town of Tain. John Farquhar Munro has whispered in my ear that a certain St Maelrubha is the patron saint of Applecross. The saint lived in that part of the world, which is why the Gaelic name for Applecross is "A' Chomraich"—"the sanctuary". We could do something to promote those saints on the back of Donald Gorrie's suggestion.
Donald Gorrie and others have mentioned that St Andrew is also connected with Russia, but St Andrew is the patron saint of a long list of countries, including Romania. I like that international context; it is a lovely idea that we could celebrate our national saint by raising our glasses at the same time as people in Romania, Greece and Russia. If it promotes exchanges between countries, I say amen to that.
Finally, we are all aware of the sometimes Byzantine difficulties in ensuring that our constituents and hard-working citizens are recognised and rewarded. I have felt for some time that it would be appropriate to have a system whereby awards or gongs were handed out not by the Scottish Executive but by the Scottish Parliament. At the moment, such awards are given on new year's day or on the Queen's birthday, but we could hand out the awards on 30 November, which is the day of our patron saint. Why cannot we have a wee committee of the Scottish Parliament that could hand out awards in a more open, fair-minded and more accurately targeted system? The awards need not be expensive medals, but we must give some form of public recognition to those hard-working citizens who work quietly behind the scenes. We could fill that great gap by connecting the awards to St Andrew's day.
I congratulate Donald Gorrie and thank him for lodging the motion for debate. I apologise for not having made it to the chamber for the start of his speech.
From the speeches that I have heard, I conclude that Donald Gorrie is quite right to say that the Parliament's role is to act as a catalyst to pull together the many organisations to which Margaret Ewing referred. If it is true—I believe that it is—that most Scots have only a hazy idea of their national saint and when his saint's day is, those Caledonian societies cannot have been very successful in promoting St Andrew. The activities of such societies might have a defined focus, so the Parliament should take the lead in doing something to boost the confidence of Scots and to make them better informed about Scottishness. We have a role in that.
I agree with Margaret Ewing's comments: this is not just a marketing tool and our aim is not just to sell ourselves to all the newly emerging economies of the world. We have a great deal to do to persuade our own people that this is a country that is worth staying in. The Executive has policies to try to keep them here and to welcome other folk. We must re-examine what Scottishness means. Does it mean "One Scotland. Many Cultures"? Do we have a diluted culture or do people buy into an existing one? We need to plumb a huge amount of self-knowledge. We should do so in the way in which the Americans approach both thanksgiving day and independence day. Often the school calendar is geared towards those two days in terms of class projects. There would be nothing wrong with our having two national days in Scotland—we might choose Victoria day. Donald Gorrie and I are not quite old enough to remember Victoria and when that day was relevant, but other members will realise that somewhere it is still celebrated. Why does that happen?
It is celebrated only in Edinburgh.
We get things right in Edinburgh. There is nothing wrong with our having two national days, as the Americans have.
I hope that the minister will concentrate on what we can get out of St Andrew's day as a community, rather than on using it as a marketing tool for Scotland the brand or Scotland the venue. It is much more than that. Inevitably, if we are successful in promoting Scotland, things Scottish and Scottish history and culture in the way that has been described, we will attract more visitors, but in my book that is not the reason for celebrating St Andrew's day. I refer to the new Scots who went through a parody of a ceremony in Glasgow, at which they learned to be British and self-consciously Scottish at the edges. I would prefer that we had the confidence to say to those people that they are Scots who are equal partners with folk who are English, Welsh, Irish and so on.
We have a great deal of fundamental thinking to do. Now that we have a Scottish Parliament, folks should relax a wee bit in their Scottishness. They should not always seek to put a political dimension on Scottishness or to use it as a marketing tool. I thank Donald Gorrie for bringing the issue to our attention. If he cares to lodge a motion suggesting that there should be a committee of the Parliament that pulls together all the strands that would enable us to meet the objectives that are set out in his motion, I will sign up to that.
I invite Frank McAveety to respond to the debate and—doubtless—to introduce St Mungo to it.
Perhaps only Donald Gorrie would examine a calendar that is predicated on the Gregorian model in order to identify a Gorrian model under which he can request a debate about St Andrew's day on St Patrick's night. That is a contradiction in terms, but I am happy to respond to the debate.
One key theme that has emerged is how the Irish have recognised and celebrated their patron saint—so effectively that at this time last year the Minister for Finance and Public Services, whose birthday happens to fall on St Patrick's day, and I were at the St Patrick's night concert of Stiff Little Fingers at the Barrowlands. I mention that because the Irish are very good at colonising an issue and marketing it cleverly.
One reason why historically Scots have been less aware of St Andrew is that when Scots advanced, especially internationally, they often penetrated and moved through the echelons of other societies very quickly. As Tom Devine has written in his recent book about Scots and the empire, they did not need to hold on to characteristics of their Scottishness, other than their aspirations and capacity to work effectively in those societies. The experience of the Irish was very different. The Irish were a more downtrodden and less aspirational community, although recent generations have redefined themselves.
Ted Brocklebank mentioned the rule of papal infallibility. Given that I have Irish parents, I would not want to question that on St Patrick's night, in case I am excommunicated. I will be very cautious on that issue.
A common theme ran through most, if not all, of the speeches that have been made. There may be disagreements about how best and when to celebrate—arguments can be made on either side of that debate. Personally, I think that it would be better if Scotland's national day was at a more appropriate seasonal time than the end of November. Equally, there is a body of thought that the capacity to have a run of events from 30 November through Christmas, hogmanay and on to Burns night is perhaps not unattractive to many promoters. I hope that what members have said will generate views about that.
Our committee in St Andrews thought long and hard about those matters some five years ago and put a lot of effort into working out how to make St Andrew's day the focus that Iain Smith described. For all the aspirational and cultural reasons that have been described, we found it enormously difficult to attract visitors to the town at that time of year. People were saving up for, and their thoughts were on, Christmas. Somehow it was impossible to convince them that they should start to celebrate at the end of November and celebrate right through to Burns night. I am afraid that that did not work.
Perhaps we should have such a debate and discuss how to celebrate.
The key theme in the debate has been the difficult definition of Scottishness. The induction ceremony in St Mungo's city—members might want me to make such a reference in this debate—was essentially a combination of elements. Each of us has a political view about it. The saltire was involved in the ceremony as much as the national anthem, "God Save the Queen". I know that folk have different perspectives, but people often try to polarise the sense of Scottishness and Britishness. However, the two can be matched quite effectively, irrespective of the model of governance that people feel strongly about. I respect the views of those who have different ideas from mine on how Scotland should be governed over the next period.
How can we use St Andrew's day? If it is not currently an Executive priority to declare the day a public holiday, as Donald Gorrie suggested, how should we use St Andrew's day more effectively? How does it connect with wider developments and the contribution that Scotland can make in respect of culture, identity and heritage?
I stress that, at the First Minister's most recent St Andrew's day speech, for the first time ever in Scotland a political leader identified culture as one of the key ways through which we can have a sense of commonality of what we are as Scots, whether new Scots, traditional Scots or Scots who have different views of how we should organise ourselves politically. The essential point is what binds us together. The First Minister argued that one way in which we are bound effectively together is through the traditions that old and new Scottish culture can bring.
I agree with what members have said in exploring such issues. There is a constant battle over what might be called an old-fashioned view of Scotland, which is an important entry point for us in the nations of the world. Let us consider a situation in which a person is desperately searching for the defining characteristics of a Scot—as opposed to those of a person from England, for example—for an international audience. It would be hard for an English person easily to tie into iconic symbols, whereas we have at least three or four iconic symbols—those symbols can sometimes be bowdlerised in terms of shortbread tins, but essentially they are still important elements.
Will the minister give way?
I would never caricature Margo MacDonald as a person who is part of the shortbread-tin mentality in Scotland.
I am partial to a wee bit of shortbread, Presiding Officer.
The minister has outlined the contradiction at the heart of things, which I discussed. There is no proper appreciation of what it is to be Scottish and there is a lack of confidence in what we sometimes feel we are. The minister has pointed out the value in marketing terms of our icons, such as shortbread tins. If we had a committee such as Donald Gorrie mentioned, an investigation of the whole issue should start from a much more practical and less esoteric point of view than that which some academics who have probed the matter have had. We must get our act together so that we are not ashamed of the fact that we make the best sweet biscuits in the world.
I stress that there cannot be a properly nailed-down definition of what Scottishness is. There is a multiplicity of definitions. What were meant to be the symbols of Scottishness relating to the political and historic development of the nation meant nothing to the community from which I came but, as I evolved as a young person and as I have evolved as an adult, I have become much more sympathetic towards and understanding about Scottishness. It is much more about values than about institutions. We must at least try to explore options. A strong sense of that has emerged in the debate.
As I said, the First Minister used the St Andrew's day speech to talk about culture, because he thought that that was an important development. We are now at the stage where we hope very shortly to make progress on our commitment to a cultural review. One or two of the key themes that have emerged tonight might be good contributions to a discussion of how we can utilise our national agencies at different times of the year. We can try to find ways in which VisitScotland, Historic Scotland, the Scottish Arts Council, local authorities and other agencies can buy into such a process. In that sense, the issue would not be kept to a single day; we must recognise that we need a continuous programme of development.
I agree with Alex Neil that the issue is partly to do with how we promote and market ourselves. It is not intrinsically or solely about that, but marketing is an important tool to develop. There is no doubt that the Irish have managed that process effectively, because they have nailed down two or three important messages and have kept them consistent. One of the key points arising in our tourism evaluation over the past few years has been that we need a single, consistent message that we can hammer home to ensure that we break through and penetrate.
I am happy to take back some of the ideas that have been mentioned this evening in looking at the strengths that exist in Scottish culture. There is no doubt that traditional Scottish music is a major element that has been developing in the past few years, particularly with the growth of the fèisean movement right across the Highlands. One of the key issues that the cultural advisers working with me will focus on in the next consultation round of the cultural review is how traditional Scottish music can feature more prominently in the review—we want to link in with some of our major agencies on that.
I hope that the integration of the tourism strategy over the next year or two will provide an opportunity to combine some of the strengths that have been mentioned. One of the key messages was that people had a strong understanding of what Scotland's products were. Some of those products were old and traditional and some of us may have thought that we really did not want that and that our image needed to be modern. I think that we can both have a traditional image and articulate a modern definition of Scotland. It is important that we try to combine the best elements of the old and the new.
Another key message that we must stress is that local authorities already have the capacity to identify a local holiday based around St Andrew's day. None has done that so far and I think that that is partly because, as Margo MacDonald said, there has not been a strong public view in favour of such a holiday or a major demand for one. We need to take that on board.
A number of good ideas have been raised tonight and I am happy to take them back and explore with Donald Gorrie how agencies can work together more effectively. In the cultural review process, there may be one or two issues that members can develop and submit their views on.
I hope that from that process we can pull together something that is more coherent and more meaningful, with the one caveat that it should be about celebrating the diversity of Scottish culture and tradition throughout the year rather than just on one day.
I hope that members recognise that the Executive is aware of the issues and happy to explore the points that have been raised.
Meeting closed at 17:53.