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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, June 10, 2010


Contents


First Minister's Question Time


Engagements



1. To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-2457)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

I have a range of engagements to take forward the Government’s programme for Scotland including, I am delighted to say, the announcement of 5,000 new modern apprenticeship places, which have been made possible with the use of European social fund money. Those extra modern apprenticeships, which are for all ages, bring the total number of opportunities for work-focused training in Scotland to almost 40,000 this coming year. I know that Iain Gray will want to congratulate Skills Development Scotland on its success in this initiative.

Iain Gray

The First Minister well knows that I always welcome apprenticeships. That is good news indeed. Unfortunately, when it comes to the economy in Scotland, it is not all good news. We have also read today about the loss of 350 printing jobs in Dundee. Unemployment is still higher in Scotland than it is in the rest of the country, our growth is still trailing that of the United Kingdom and this week we saw that small business start-up rates are lower in Scotland than they are in the rest of the UK. Alex Salmond said that he would make Scotland the most competitive nation in the UK. What has he actually done?

The First Minister

Of course, through every year of Labour’s term in office, Scotland underperformed against the UK and just about every country in Europe in terms of growth. Iain Gray is right in the sense that we face serious challenges with the economic situation. Therefore, when examples such as the work of Skills Development Scotland and efforts to internationalise Scottish business bear fruit, we should congratulate those who are involved.

That is why I was delighted to see the new UK regional trade estimates on the value of UK goods exported up until the end of March, which were published just an hour or two ago. In this serious situation of recession, exports from England fell by 4.8 per cent; from Wales by 16.8 per cent; and from Northern Ireland by 17.4 per cent. However, the report shows that up until March 2010 exports from Scotland rose by 3.5 per cent. That is an extraordinary performance by Scottish exporters who are facing the most difficult international climate. Although we should of course congratulate the individual companies involved, we should also welcome the efforts of our agencies in promoting international trade.

Iain Gray

My question, of course, was about what the First Minister has done. One of the things that he has in train is a revaluation of business rates. In the past, he has said that most businesses will benefit from this revaluation. However, I have with me the figures for a typical Scottish high street. In the town of Ballater, there are 18 small businesses that are all just getting by in tough times. I acknowledge that, last year, 12 businesses did not pay any rates because of the small business bonus; however, this year, that has turned into the small business bombshell for those businesses, all but two of which face a massive rates increase. None of them is better off and, this year, Ballater’s high street will pay about 470 per cent more in rates than it did last year. Can the First Minister tell us how much extra money his Government is raking in from these punitive increases in small business rates?

The First Minister

I will try to explain the process of rating revaluation. It is set by independent assessors and does not benefit the Government for the obvious reason that 60 per cent of businesses in Scotland will be no worse or better off as a result. If we were to introduce a transitional scheme, it would mean that the people who would benefit—those who had been evaluated independently, their businesses found to be struggling so that their business rates came down—would have to pay for those who had been revalued upwards.

I am pleasantly surprised that Iain Gray has mentioned the small business bonus. My clear recollection is that that extraordinary business bonus scheme, which has benefited 100,000 and more small businesses throughout Scotland, has been criticised and attacked by the Labour Party. If Iain Gray’s question represents a conversion to the significant efforts that are being made to boost small business in Scotland, I will join the Small Business Federation in suggesting that it is better that one sinner repenteth.

I ask both participants to speed up a little. We are six minutes in and have got only two questions out of the way.

Iain Gray

The trouble is that nobody in the business world believes that 60 per cent of businesses are better off. Last week in the Parliament we had 26 nursery owners from Fife, all of whom will see their rates soar; seven of them will pay 150 per cent more and one of them will pay 200 per cent more. In my constituency, Alexander Pollock Ltd engravers’ rateable value has gone up from £25,300 to £41,800. The Scottish Chambers of Commerce tells me that the worst example that it has been able to find is in Ballater again, where a restaurant faces an increase of over 400 per cent in rates payable. The First Minister should probably not drop in there for lunch on his way home tomorrow. Does he understand that such hikes in rates could close those businesses down?

The First Minister

I do not know about Iain Gray’s understanding of geography—it would be a substantial detour to go to Ballater on the way to the north-east of Scotland. Nonetheless, there is no doubt that Iain Gray’s knowledge of Ballater is greater than his question suggests.

Information on the effect of the rates revaluation, which exists in statute and is independently revalued, is there for all to see. It is a fact that 60 per cent of businesses will be no worse or better off. It is also a fact that among the range of incentives and supports that are offered to not just small businesses but to businesses across the business rates range, our position is far superior to anything else in these islands. In particular, the small business bonus scheme, which has been bitterly opposed by Iain Gray’s party throughout the past three years, is the envy of every other country in the United Kingdom and is supported by every small business in Scotland.

Iain Gray

It is a fact that small and medium-sized enterprises employ thousands in Scotland. It is a fact that the rates hikes put those jobs in danger. It is a fact that in England, the same changes are staggered over five years. It is a fact that in Northern Ireland they have stopped the process because of the damage that it will do to the economy.

If Alex Salmond will not listen to me, perhaps he will listen to the managing director of Alexander Pollock, who says in his letter to me:

“This is Scottish Industry we are talking about and our own legislators are doing their best to put us out of business.

Can you help?

Yours despairingly”.

The First Minister can help. Will he stop this crazy revaluation right now?

The First Minister

Rates revaluation is in statute and is part of the process of business rates. Rates are independently evaluated. I repeat that if we introduced a transitional scheme, those who would benefit—the majority—from the rates revaluation would have to pay more. I am sure that even Iain Gray would not suggest the unfairness of saying to businesses whose rates have been revalued downwards as a result of an independent process of revaluation that they should be asked to pay for Labour’s recession.

The most important point of all is that there is no benefit for the Government in a rates revaluation. Rates are evaluated according to an independent process. However, the support that is on offer to small businesses in Scotland is unparalleled and unrivalled across these islands.

Given that the Labour Party’s only response to the huge and serious budget pressures that it has created is to suggest that we should go ahead with £332 million of further cuts this year, people knowing that and noting the apparent concern that has been expressed for businesses will find it very difficult to reconcile how Labour, in calling for cuts in public spending in Scotland this year, can be in a position to offer help to anyone, whether in public services or in the business community.


Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)



2. To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland. (S3F-2458)

I met the Secretary of State for Scotland on Monday and Tuesday of this week.

Annabel Goldie

I have asked the First Minister on numerous occasions to spell out his plans for sorting out the mess that Labour has made of the UK finances. No answer has he given. Labour has left this country with the biggest national debt that we have ever seen. Although it is Labour’s mess, it is also the First Minister’s responsibility to sort things out in Scotland. The buck stops with him.

Do not take my word for it, Presiding Officer. The First Minister’s colleague, Andrew Welsh, convener of the Finance Committee, says that the Scottish Government needs to show far greater leadership,

“to set out more fully”

what the Government will do and to

“demonstrate real leadership by setting out spending choices in an open and transparent manner.”

Does the First Minister agree with Andrew Welsh?

The First Minister

I agree that we will set out the

“spending choices in an open and transparent manner.”

That is exactly the process that is being engaged in by the independent budget review, which will be reporting shortly. Every public service in Scotland is making preparations for the time of austerity to come.

Annabel Goldie is being a bit disingenuous not to accept that her new Chancellor of the Exchequer announced only this week a public consultation on the comprehensive spending review. Unless Annabel Goldie is telling me that the objectives and detail of that spending review have already been decided before the public consultation, she surely wishes us—in the atmosphere of respect and acknowledgement that exists between the Governments north and south of the border—to contribute to that discussion. Substantial risks will be taken with recovery and employment if the chancellor’s reported plans go ahead unaltered.

Annabel Goldie

Not for the first time I see a complete lack of connection between my question and the First Minister’s answer. I am not asking about George Osborne’s budget; I am asking about the Scottish budget, as known to the First Minister. I have been asking the First Minister about it for well over a year now, and the Finance Committee has now backed that call.

The First Minister might rely on bluff and bluster to duck his responsibility, but this is at a new level. Members of the Parliament are now demanding his plans. Members of his own party, however embarrassing it may be to him, are now demanding his plans. Why is the First Minister dodging the issue?

John Swinney has admitted that on his desk are secret plans to make savings—

“Secret plans”. My goodness!

Order.

Annabel Goldie

Something that exists but that is not disclosed to others is a secret. Secret plans to make savings have been drawn up by John Swinney’s civil servants. Now is the time to be transparent. We should be told what the Scottish Government is going to do. The First Minister should show some leadership and stop the secrecy. When is the First Minister going to come clean about his budget?

The First Minister

I remind Annabel Goldie of the process under which the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government operate at present. The funding comes through a block grant, substantially from Westminster. We know what the block grant is for this year, and we have set a budget for this year as a result.

We do not know what the block grant will be for next year, for the year after or for the year after that, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer has not announced his emergency budget yet, never mind the comprehensive spending review, which will be published in the autumn. As I have just said, I am willing to say that every public service is preparing for times of fiscal austerity, acknowledging the previous chancellor’s remarks that the cuts to come will be tougher and deeper than those of Margaret Thatcher. However, even Annabel Goldie would not expect John Swinney—far-sighted though he is—to know the figures on which to set his budget before they have been set by the Westminster chancellor who is responsible for handing down 90 per cent of that budget. Annabel Goldie should give us the figures and not make them a secret. She will then find that John Swinney is able to do the job.


Cabinet (Meetings)



3. To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. (S3F-2459)

Issues of importance to the people of Scotland will be discussed.

Tavish Scott

Last week, the First Minister wrote directly to the councillor who is in charge of education in each of Scotland’s 32 local authorities. There were lots of issues that he could have raised, including school buildings, places for probationer teachers, the curriculum for excellence, strikes in the classroom, teacher training and his broken class-size promise. Will he tell Parliament today what his letter was about?

The First Minister

I wrote a letter specifically at the request of a former MSP, Dennis Canavan, who piloted a bill for a St Andrew’s day holiday through the Parliament. Many of us think that a public holiday on our national day would be a substantial and progressive move. Given the fact that the Parliament passed the bill not unanimously, but by a substantial majority, I hope that there is no reneging on the issue by the Liberal Democrats. Dennis Canavan approached me at a meeting some weeks ago and suggested that we renew our efforts to see whether local authorities around Scotland would be able to follow the policy lead that was taken by the Scottish Parliament, and I wrote to local authorities on that subject.

Tavish Scott

So, it is Dennis Canavan’s fault. Despite all the problems in Scottish education, Alex Salmond says that that is the “important matter” that merits a letter from the First Minister. It turns out that the SNP Government has written to councils about the matter before, without much luck. The First Minister’s letter says:

“I was disappointed to discover … only four authorities actually got back to us with their views”.

Only four education conveners out of 32 replied, even though 12 of those 32 are paid-up, card-carrying members of the SNP. Not even they think that the matter is important enough.

When will the First Minister write to education conveners about education? Does he not believe that his priority is just wrong? In August, 54,000 children will start a new curriculum and Scottish schools are not ready. Teachers cannot get jobs. Why does the First Minister think that it is more important to write about a holiday than it is to sort out what is happening in our classrooms?

The First Minister

The curriculum for excellence is being pursued by the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, who has announced a range of initiatives to help with its implementation. The vast majority of people in the Parliament and throughout the country support the curriculum for excellence, even if Tavish Scott is doubtful about its objectives.

I have known Dennis Canavan for many years as a parliamentarian both at Westminster and in the Scottish Parliament, and I am proud to be associated with the initiative that he piloted through the Parliament. I think that it is a thoroughly good thing to have St Andrew’s day—the day of our patron saint—established as a public holiday in Scotland. Once upon a time, the Liberal Democrats, when they were a party of Opposition in London and a party of Government in Scotland, believed that as well. In the past few days, we have seen the dramatic conversion of Murdo Fraser to the concept of a new Bannockburn visitor centre with all its attendant symbolism and importance for Scotland. One day, we will see the re-conversion of Tavish Scott to a patriotic national holiday for the Scottish people on St Andrew’s day.[Interruption.]

Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)

I wish to declare an interest, in that my brother works for D C Thomson and has been informed that his job is at risk, and my dad is in receipt of a works pension.

The First Minister is aware of the potential 350 job losses at D C Thomson in Dundee. Like mine, nearly every family in Dundee has a connection to D C Thomson, which employs about 2,000 people from the city. It has a loyal workforce, many of whom would want to continue to work for the company. I am pleased to have heard a commitment from the management to minimise the number of compulsory redundancies. I know that the Government’s partnership action for continuing employment team will work with any staff who are made redundant to identify re-employment opportunities and training needs.

I ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government can direct the PACE team to consider the possibility of working with D C Thomson to support retraining of staff to allow redeployment within the D C Thomson organisation.

The First Minister

I share the constituency member’s concern. Even in a city, 350 job losses is a substantial number. I spoke to the chairman of D C Thomson earlier this week. I can confirm that the Scottish Government has acted immediately to offer support through PACE. That initiative will be available to those D C Thomson employees who face redundancy.

The national PACE manager spoke to the D C Thomson head of employee relations at 10 am this morning to outline the support that is available through PACE and to provide further information on PACE support for the company to consider. I understand that the company intends to set up a job shop on site. PACE representatives will contact the company again next week and will maintain close liaison to ensure that affected employees receive the maximum support possible. Although the PACE initiative, by definition, is there to ameliorate and respond to a major industrial closure, it has had substantial success in placing people in new jobs in a number of serious situations. We all wish it well in responding to this one in Dundee.


Joint Ministerial Committee (Meetings)



4. To ask the First Minister what matters were discussed at the most recent meeting of the joint ministerial committee. (S3F-2462)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

John Swinney, Fiona Hyslop and I attended the plenary session of the joint ministerial committee on Tuesday 9 June, which was hosted by the Prime Minister. There were a number of substantial outcomes, one of which was a commitment that ministers of the Scottish Government and the other devolved Administrations will attend and speak at European Council meetings and, where appropriate, represent the United Kingdom at those meetings.

Jamie Hepburn

I welcome the achievements of the Scottish Government in getting the JMC structure to deliver some positive changes for Scotland. Is there a lesson in the outcome of this week’s meetings that the devolution settlement must never return to a situation in which any UK Government treats Holyrood simply as a department of Whitehall, to be bullied or ignored as it sees fit?

The First Minister

There is a substantial amount in that question. I should remind members that the tendency of some people in central Government to treat this Parliament and, indeed, other assemblies and Parliaments in that fashion did not arise with the advent of the SNP Government but predated it. Indeed, the JMC plenary, which is the key meeting between ministers, First Ministers and Prime Ministers, did not take place between October 2002 and June 2008, when it was revived.

I welcome the fact that the Prime Minister chaired the meeting on Tuesday. There are substantial differences, particularly in the approach to economic policy and public spending, between all three of the devolved Administrations and the coalition Government in London. Nonetheless, on a variety of issues that are important for the people of Scotland, progress was achieved on Tuesday, and I welcome the commitment of the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister in attending that meeting.


VisitScotland



5. To ask the First Minister when he last spoke to the chairman of VisitScotland and what matters were discussed. (S3F-2468)

I last spoke to Dr Cantlay on Tuesday 25 May 2010 about homecoming.

Lewis Macdonald

Does the First Minister acknowledge the statutory duties of the chief executive, as VisitScotland’s accountable officer, to be responsible for the proper use of public funds? Does he believe that Scottish ministers have been kept informed of any changes that are likely to impact on the strategic direction of VisitScotland, as required by the agency’s management status? Will he tell us who, today, is VisitScotland’s accountable officer?

The First Minister

The strategic direction is as was laid out in the statement from the tourism minister last week. All of that has been accorded with. I hope that Lewis Macdonald is not seriously suggesting that ministers direct personnel matters at VisitScotland. That is not the job—[Interruption.]

Order.

The First Minister

The meeting of Tuesday 25 May was actually a press conference at which Dr Cantley and I announced the independent research into homecoming Scotland 2009. It showed that homecoming generated £53.7 million of additional tourism revenue for Scotland—22 per cent above target. That is an example of the strategic direction that was set by ministers and which is proving to be an extraordinary success, despite the carping criticism throughout of Lewis Macdonald.

Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD)

Given that success, does not it seem a bit strange that VisitScotland seems to be intent on sacking its chief executive? Will the First Minister now answer the questions that we tried to get answered last week? Which ministers discussed the future of the chief executive with the chairman of VisitScotland before his appointment, during the appointment process or since his appointment? We did not get clear answers to our questions last week. We need those clear answers.

The First Minister

Other ministers answered that last week. As far as I am concerned, I spoke to Dr Cantley on Tuesday 25 May about homecoming. I did so in front of the majority of the Scottish press corps. I was entitled to do that—it was a thoroughly good thing to do. The success of homecoming 2009 is to be welcomed across the chamber. I join Murdo Fraser in hoping that homecoming 2014 will be an even greater success.


Public Sector Staff Bonuses



6. To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government is taking action to restrict the payment of bonuses to the highest-paid staff in the public sector. (S3F-2475)

The First Minister (Alex Salmond)

We are taking action to reduce the maximum bonus that is available to chief executives of public bodies. This year, we are again asking chief executives to waive all or part of any bonus, as many of them agreed to do last year. Within the Scottish Government, performance pay for senior civil service staff has been halved in 2010-11, compared with last year.

Jeremy Purvis

In March, the First Minister told Parliament that reviewing the remuneration packages of the chief executives of quangos would

“give rise to a host of legal problems and, quite possibly, to court challenges.”—[Official Report, 25 March 2010; c 25099.]

In his answer of 7 May to a parliamentary question that I put, John Swinney confirmed that

“Since this administration took office, the Scottish Government has approved reviews for”—[Official Report, Written Answers, 7 May 2010; S3W-32990.]

19 chief executive posts. Given that those reviews took place under his Administration and that our top three public sector officials were hired under contracts that his Administration issued, will he confirm that none of those people will receive bonuses this year and next?

The First Minister

I am delighted to say that a number of recent new appointments and new posts do not have bonus arrangements. For example, that is the case for Creative Scotland, the Scottish Futures Trust and the Scottish Police Services Authority. I hope that Jeremy Purvis accepts that it is somewhat easier to introduce a no-bonus policy for new appointments and new bodies than it is to try to rewrite contracts that were signed at a time when the Liberal Democrats were in coalition government with the Labour Party.

Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind)

I would not wish to push a wages policy on the First Minister, particularly as could not carry one out in any case—he does not have the powers to do so. What will he do to encourage people in the private sector to exercise restraint and to show some sensitivity to the folk who are losing their jobs?

The First Minister

The Government has some powers over wages policy. For example, in the “Public Sector Pay Policy for Staff Pay Remits 2010-11”, we set out the pay parameters for staff in public bodies, limiting basic awards to 1 per cent. It is true that senior staff in the public sector are governed by pay arrangements from Westminster, but there are a variety of pay bodies in the public sector into or on which the Scottish Government has a strong input or impact. I join Margo MacDonald in saying that, in the toughest imaginable times to come, people throughout the public and private sector will have to show restraint in terms of their wages. I support the view that those with the broadest shoulders should bear the largest burden.

12:29 Meeting suspended until 14:15.

14:15 On resuming—