Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Dec 2002
Meeting date: Tuesday, December 17, 2002
Official Report
127KB pdf
Public Appointments and Public Bodies etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I have a copy of the Official Report of last week's meeting of the Local Government Committee, which will be circulated to members. I laid out this committee's position at that meeting. The minister's amendment proposes the establishment of a new successor body to the Ancient Monuments Board for Scotland and the Historic Buildings Council for Scotland.
Having heard the minister's reassurances and the announcement by the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport that there will be a review of the role and functions of Historic Scotland, I did not move the amendments. I have raised with the minister, and will continue to do so, my view that someone independent of the civil service should chair the review. I have also put that view in writing to the minister, which reflects the views of committee members who have spoken to me over the past few days.
The amendments have now been withdrawn. A successor body will be put in place not just to deal with the functions of the two bodies that will be removed, but to take a more strategic and wider look at the historic environment in Scotland. That will probably be a more positive move forward. The bodies involved that have spoken to me have welcomed the move.
I offer my congratulations, convener—you did exactly the right thing. The minister's new ideas are significant and useful. I concur that my one remaining problem is the lack of an independent chair for the review. Without criticising the individual involved, I would prefer that there were an independent chair.
That said, the matter has shown the committee system at its best. We have gone from a deeply flawed plan, which was vigorously opposed by key individuals and did not stand scrutiny by the committee, to a sensible plan that still reduces the number of quangos, but also produces more robust and sensible solutions. It also closely examines the performance of a body that has not been and clearly is not up to par. That reflects credit on all those involved, and I thank you for your efforts, convener.
Thank you.
I apologise for being late. A little local health difficulty has taken some two years to resolve, but I hope that it has now, finally been resolved. I hope that you will forgive me.
Mike Russell is right: we were never necessarily troubled by the status of the organisation—by that, I mean the Ancient Monuments Board for Scotland and the Historic Buildings Council for Scotland—nor were we troubled that successor arrangements were appropriate or seen to be put in place. The moves by the minister go a long way towards providing the reassurance that not only we, but others who care for the historic environment, were calling for.
I am less bothered about whether the chair is internal or independent, although I will naturally bow to other views in the committee. My concern—I am not sure whether this was discussed at the last meeting—was on the remit of the review. I felt that it was expressed quite narrowly and not as the convener just expressed it, which is that the review will examine Historic Scotland in the context of the overall need to focus on our historic environment and the other existing institutions. My concern was that the remit should not consider Historic Scotland in isolation, but very much in the wider policy context. I wondered whether we should clarify that those issues will be considered under the remit.
I clarify that when we specifically asked for a review, it was of the role and functions of Historic Scotland alone. It was not about the wider historic environment. However, I can certainly ask the minister to consider that, although we do not want to lose sight of the review of Historic Scotland itself and allow that to be clouded by a different debate. I realise that you are not suggesting that.
No, that is part of the same debate. During the debate on whether to abolish or otherwise the Ancient Monuments Board for Scotland and the Historic Buildings Council for Scotland, we wondered who was responsible for what. Rather than attempting to widen the debate, we need to consider that in a slightly larger context than the remit perhaps suggests in order to get clarity.
I shall undertake to speak with the minister in that regard. There are no other questions.
That was a piece of work well done.