I bring the meeting to order. I apologise if the sunlight is causing difficulties, but I am advised that we cannot close the blind behind me so there is not much that we can do about it.
There is a strong argument for discussing item 4 in public so that the public can understand the thinking behind the committee's deliberations about what we do and why we do it. People should be able to understand the logic behind the report.
I agree that that applies to the final stage of our discussions. However, before the committee reaches that stage it must get through an awful lot that is open to negotiation and argument. I would be sympathetic to a suggestion to discuss the final draft of the report in public, but at this stage the report is far from finished.
I have always said that we should hold as much of our business as possible in public. I see nothing wrong in principle with considering a stage 1 report in an open meeting. I am conscious that I have been the only member to take that position on previous occasions, so I welcome members' conversion.
Are you moving that we consider item 4 in public?
I always want to discuss matters in public.
Mike Rumbles and Shona Robison have commented and David Davidson has expressed a view that runs counter to theirs, so if no one else wants to comment there will be a division. Would members who are in favour of taking item 4 in private please show that? I think that David Davidson intends to vote.
I am sorry, convener—thank you for your help. I was thinking about a different meeting.
There will be a division.
For
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 3, Abstentions 0.
I am not fussed one way or the other. I do not mind whether we discuss item 5 in private or in public. We do not have anything to hide.
If there is any question whether we should take an item in private or in public, the presumption in standing orders is to discuss the item in public unless there is a vote to discuss it in private.
I merely pointed out that it has been standard practice to discuss such items in private, especially if there is to be discussion about evidence gathering.
I was going to make the same point. The committee has always discussed such matters in private.
Does Mike Rumbles want to formalise his suggestion that we discuss item 5 in public?
No, because the question should be whether we agree to discuss the item in private.
That is the question. Do you want to formalise your opposition to our discussing the item in private?
If I am the only member who is opposed to discussing item 5 in private, I will not press the matter to a vote.
Okay. Item 5 will be discussed in private.