Plenary, 30 Nov 2000

Meeting date: Thursday, November 30, 2000

Official Report 690KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister and what issues he plans to raise. (S1F-697)

I do not think that that is the right question.

It is the right question for me, Sir David, if that is okay.

I apologise—the question has been mistyped on my sheet, and I have a different question. That was my fault.

I last met the Prime Minister on 23 October and I have no immediate plans to meet him in the near future.

I thank the First Minister for his answer. He may care to raise with the Prime Minister the issue that I am about to raise when they next have discussions. In reflecting on the Lord Advocate's statement to Parliament yesterday, has the First Minister given any further consideration to the Chhokar family's call that the inquiries that the Lord Advocate plans should be undertaken as public inquiries?

The Lord Advocate dealt fairly with the matter yesterday. I think that all members of the Parliament share the concerns relating to the case, the family and the tragic circumstances of the death. The Lord Advocate has put in place an unprecedented set of responses, including two independent inquiries. In addition, for some time the Minister for Justice has been involved in developments to address issues concerning race in Scotland. That process will continue.

What we must do now is allow the inquiries to proceed. We have confirmed that we want the family to be involved. We want to ensure that their confidence is reinforced during what is a difficult period for them. I met the family yesterday, along with the Minister for Justice. I know that they met some members of the Scottish National Party. I hope that the chamber accepts my assurance that the inquiries will be thorough. I do not intend to set up inquiries and then let their recommendations lie on the shelf.

On the First Minister's last point, there is a concern that the two inquiries may not confront the allegations of institutionalised racism in the system as directly as a single public inquiry. On St Andrew's day, when we reflect on the composition of our country, is the First Minister in a position to say to Parliament that the remits of both inquiries will include explicit reference to tackling allegations of institutionalised racism and to acting in response to any recommendations that fall under that part of the remit?

I share John Swinney's thoughts about St Andrew's day. It is a day on which we like to celebrate and acknowledge the civilised country that is Scotland. However, John Swinney is also right to say that there are blemishes on our so-called civilised society, and he has highlighted one. All that I can do today, with the support of the chamber, is say to the leader of the SNP that I will take his points to the Lord Advocate.

The Executive has nothing to hide. Scotland should be fully exposed to the two inquiries. I say to the judiciary, to the Crown Office, to the police and to every political party that the inquiries must be thorough and that no holds should be barred. The process should take Scotland further towards ensuring that we have the civilised society that is celebrated throughout the world on this day.

I thank the First Minister for his reply. I want to press him on one further point. Like me, he will have dealt with a number of constituents who have been the victims of crime and have ended up rather bewildered at the sometimes insensitive treatment that they have received from the Crown Office. At a time when our democracy is being subjected to greater scrutiny, should not that climate reach the Crown Office? Can the First Minister guarantee that, unlike the Chhokar case, in future the victims of crime will not become the victims of the criminal justice system?

This is clearly a day for consensus on some serious issues. I have two points. First, victims are often aggrieved about the way in which they are treated within the system, which varies enormously in different parts of Scotland. We must ensure that in the Scotland of the future—and the future always starts today—they are properly and effectively dealt with and that the pure sensitivities involved will be acknowledged by all concerned. I give John Swinney the guarantee that we will do that.

Secondly, it may be useful for the chamber to get further information on what has been done in the past two years. We were not good with victims, but progress has been made. There is no complacency on our part and a lot more must be done.

I commend the cross-party consensus on rooting out racism. I am sure that that consensus spreads right round the chamber

When the First Minister next meets the Prime Minister, will he raise the continuing chaos on our railway network? Will he seek to persuade the Prime Minister that the likes of Railtrack, ScotRail and Virgin Trains make the case for a publicly owned and accountable railway far better than old, dogmatic socialists, such as him or me, ever could?

I will respond briefly to John McAllion's point about racism. I agree that racism is an important issue. I cannot think of anything more abhorrent in any society than that the colour of one's skin should determine a special form of violence or treatment. If we believe in social inclusion, racism must not be part of Scotland's future.

On the second issue raised by John McAllion, there is widespread concern in Scotland about the state of the railways. Passengers are angry and anxious and I would like to think that, over the next few months, we will get to a point where we can regain public confidence in the railways. While that will not be easy, Sarah Boyack, the Executive and, I hope, the whole Parliament will work together, not towards the political end that John McAllion suggests but towards another end—satisfaction for consumers, who have been badly treated in recent weeks and months.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when the Scottish Executive's Cabinet will next meet and what issues will be discussed. (S1F-690)

The Cabinet will next meet on Tuesday 5 December when we will discuss matters of significance to the Executive and to the people of Scotland.

I thank the First Minister for his answer.

I am sure that at the next Cabinet meeting ministers will be champing at the bit to implement the First Minister's so-called new international vision for Scotland, which he trumpeted in the press this morning. Can he advise us whether that is the same international vision that led Jack McConnell to admit that, under Labour, our education system has third-world status?

Rather than giving us his much-beloved vague waffle, will the First Minister kindly explain the practical steps that he intends to take to improve the education system in Scotland and to restore its battered reputation?

I am pleased with and proud of the record of the new Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs over recent weeks.

We talk about progress in sharp contrast to the situation that we endured under 19 years of government by the party to which David McLetchie still belongs. He does not like to be known as a Conservative or a Tory, but he is the Tory leader in Scotland. He belongs to a party that is in opposition at Westminster and that wants to make £16 billion-worth of cuts, which amounts to cuts of £24 million in every constituency in Scotland. I ask the so-called caring, compassionate Conservatives to justify those cuts.

It is always good to look back at previous comments, and we have reached that point with the Conservatives. I read the following with interest:

"82 year old McQuarrie has been brought in to machine by Bill Walker: ‘we are a redundant party led by a bunch of has-beens.'"

That is what an unnamed Tory candidate told The Scotsman on 29 November. I have often criticised the SNP, but the Conservatives are the real Opposition to Labour everywhere in the country. The Conservatives are failing Scotland and, come the general election, we want to ensure that we expose the shallowness and emptiness shown by David McLetchie at his lectern, week in, week out.

That was a nice outbreak of consensus from the First Minister. I remind him that, under Tory Scotland, children got their exam results correctly and on time, unlike under Labour.

The First Minister does not have to send Mr McConnell to Nigeria to find out what makes a successful school, however much he might want to get Mr McConnell out of the country. Instead, he could send him to a parents' night at Jordanhill School, along with Mr Galbraith. It is no coincidence that Jordanhill is the most successful secondary school in Scotland and that St Mary's Episcopal Primary School in Dunblane is one of the best primaries. If the First Minister is the progressive pragmatist that he tells us he is, will he acknowledge that the freedom from local authority control that those schools enjoy is a crucial factor in their success? Will he extend that freedom to other schools in Scotland?

That view may be shared by a few members on the Conservative benches, but it is not shared by anyone else in Scotland. We are moving on McCrone, reducing class sizes and modernising school buildings and information and communications technology. We are talking about modern languages in primary schools, as Jack McConnell said. We are also talking about a youth crime review, early intervention, qualification for headship, continuing professional development and a children's challenge fund. Those are positive measures by a coalition Government in Scotland that cares about our children's welfare.

I remind David McLetchie to look back a week to Anniesland. If we are talking about the public listening, they ain't listening to the Conservatives because they simply have nothing to offer Scotland. That is why I am delighted that Bill Butler is sitting here as an example of how Labour won because we are listening to the population of Scotland.

When the Cabinet next meets, will the First Minister ensure that it discusses the potential job losses at the ALPS Electric factory in Arbroath, where 238 jobs are threatened in an area of already high unemployment? Given that he was personally responsible for excluding Arbroath from European assistance funding, in spite of its having the third strongest case in the whole of Scotland, what specific alternative assistance will be made available to allow the community to fight back against that major economic problem? Is the Government listening?

The Government is listening. I shall preface my remarks by saying that we have the highest employment figures in Scotland for 40 years and the lowest unemployment for 24 years. That record speaks for itself.

Every local community is hit by redundancies and unemployment. When Andrew Welsh came to see me about assisted area status, I also said that I would be delighted to have a follow-up meeting with him, officials from the council and other people from the area. That offer still holds. I empathise with every redundancy. The last thing that we want is to see people out of work for any reason. Let us not forget, however, that we have a good record just now of job creation, employment creation and people winning their own prosperity.

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Railways

To ask the First Minister what steps are being taken to consult over the future of Scotland's passenger railway services. (S1F-695)

On Tuesday we published a consultation paper setting out our vision for the future of Scotland's passenger railways and inviting views on our proposals. We will use the outcome of the exercise next spring to inform our directions and guidance to the strategic rail authority on letting the next Scottish passenger rail franchise.

Will the First Minister assure me that the relevant trade unions will be part of that consultation process? I recently met representatives of the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen, which, with the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers and the Transport Salaried Staffs Association, will bring a fresh perspective to that franchise process, particularly on the question of safety. What kind of rail improvements will we see as a result of the direction and guidance that he referred to?

Everyone in the chamber and in the country values the future of our railways. It will be a full and public consultation and I can give my colleague a guarantee that the trade unions and trade associations will be consulted on those important matters. There should be consensus in Scotland on the sort of railways we want, because we want more people to use the railways. That makes sense commercially, financially and environmentally. We want railways to play a full part in an integrated transport system. That is what Sarah Boyack is attempting to do throughout Scotland. Of course, we also want to secure more investment in the railway system. It is quite clear that the recent problems are a result of 19 years' neglect of investment. We are now trying to put that right. It may take some time, but I think that that is the kind of future that people in Scotland want for the railways.

If the consultation shows that the consensus of opinion in Scotland backs Mr McAllion and me in believing that public ownership of Railtrack is the best step that we can take towards ensuring the highest safety standards, will the First Minister attempt to ensure that Her Majesty's Government undertakes a similar consultation exercise in England, because I am quite sure that people there will be as sensible as us?

I am always keen to show Margo MacDonald that I am listening and I fully endorse her aspiration to a safe railway. That is what everyone wants. We do not want to get bogged down in the question of ownership. What we need is investment and relevance. We need the passengers to be taken seriously.

I want to send a message from the chamber to everyone associated with rail that their performance so far has not been good enough. If we are to rebuild public confidence, we must ensure that there is investment and that the concerns and views of the people of Scotland are communicated to those responsible for the railways.

Is the First Minister aware that the extension of the Airdrie-Bathgate rail line would create an east-west link across Scotland that would be of great benefit to passengers throughout the central belt?

When Mary Mulligan was asking her question, I saw the Minister for Transport looking at me—although I cannot yet discern what her response to the question would be. Sarah Boyack wants to work with local MSPs to ensure that we have a sensible policy to get people and goods on to the railways, having regard to investment and needs. That is vital for the economy of Scotland. I am sure that the point that Mary Mulligan made will be acknowledged by the Minister for Transport.

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Hepatitis C

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Executive has any plans to establish a national screening programme for hepatitis C. (S1F-685)

The Executive has no plans to establish such a programme.

Is the First Minister aware that, although in Scotland there are only 10,000 diagnosed cases of hepatitis C, a recent survey has shown that as many as 50,000 people may be infected? Will he overrule the advice of the deputy chief medical officer, Dr Andrew Fraser, that there should not be a screening programme, on the spurious grounds that we do not have a cure for hepatitis C? The purpose of a screening programme would be to prevent the spread of the disease, so that in Scotland we do not have an epidemic similar to the AIDS epidemic in Africa. Will the First Minister follow the example of France, Canada and the United States, where, according to a report by Dr Graham Fisher of London, such programmes have been introduced?

I am sure that Alex Neil recognises that I will not overrule medical advice in this area. Hepatitis C is a serious issue. That is why the Scottish needs assessment programme report concluded that, although at present screening even of high-risk groups is not justified, counselling, with the opportunity for testing, should be offered to individuals in high-risk groups as an integral part of the discussion of the management of their risky behaviour. It is relevant that the expert advisory group on hepatitis for the whole of the UK has as yet not seen fit to recommend a screening programme. However, the issue is sensitive and we will want to continue monitoring what is happening in Scotland and to respond effectively when required.

Will the Executive consider no-fault compensation for people who have contracted hepatitis C through infected blood products?

That issue has been raised previously at First Minister's question time. The most helpful thing that I can do is write to Nicola Sturgeon, along with the other two SNP members to whom I am writing, to clarify the issue of compensation in its widest sense and in relation to the particular point that she raises.

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Tuition Fees

To ask the First Minister what the cost is of paying tuition fees for all eligible students in Scotland in the current academic year. (S1F-686)

There is £122 million set aside for tuition fee payment in the financial year 2000-01. Members will notice that in my answer I refer to the financial year, rather than the academic year.

Does the First Minister agree that the information that he has just provided, and the provisions in the Education (Graduate Endowment and Student Support) (Scotland) Bill that is currently being considered by Parliament, are fine examples of the new politics of Scotland, with the Liberal Democrats and the Labour party working together to remove barriers to accessing further education? [Interruption.] This is not an inspired question. If the nats will keep quiet for a moment, I will ask the First Minister whether he believes that, taken together, those measures will prove to be one of the best student support packages in Europe.

I am delighted to endorse that. We have a working coalition, which has delivered the best student package in Europe. Members on the Opposition benches are shouting about Cubie and what we did not do. However, this is a £50 million package; it is formidable.

Wendy Alexander has introduced an £18 million package to help access. From the autumn of next year, students from low-income backgrounds will get significant help. That is the level playing field. On St Andrew's day, we should talk about confidence, compassion and competition. I believe that we need that investment in our universities and our students to create cohesive communities and a prosperous society. I am delighted that the coalition has delivered big time on that commitment. It has been warmly welcomed—that was shown in Anniesland as well. We are delivering the policies and the people are responding.

While the first miniature is—did I say miniature? I beg your pardon.

While the First Minister is enrapturing us about the wonderful package of money for higher education, could he tell us—on this day of confidence-building in Scotland—how many of Scotland's universities are in deficit now and how many will be in deficit in the next two years? What is he going to do about it?

On a sympathetic note, Presiding Officer, I was referred to as a miniature. Perhaps Mr Davidson is getting mixed up with The Herald awards dinner this evening, where more than a few miniatures will be available to the member.

We must look forward. Are we not sick and tired of the Tories lecturing us on investment in public services and education after 19 years of dismal failure? We have an education system in Scotland of which we can be proud. We want to invest in it. We are not complacent about the future, but at least we are embracing it.