Teaching Centres of Artistic Excellence
The final item of business today is a members' business debate on motion S1M-1251, in the name of Kenneth Gibson, on discrimination against teaching centres of artistic excellence.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes the decision of the Department for Education and Employment to introduce Dance and Drama Awards for students to study at institutions in England and Wales; is aware that Scottish students compete on equal terms for places at such institutions with their counterparts from other parts of the United Kingdom and the European Union (EU); is concerned that tuition fees are only paid if students study in England and Wales and regrets that no parallel funding scheme exists for students who wish to study in Scotland; believes that this discrimination against Scottish institutions can only harm them and in the case of Ballet West may force it out of business or to relocate from Taynuilt to outwith Scotland, to the detriment of the local economy and employment; notes that Ballet West attracts students from across the United Kingdom, the EU and as far afield as Guatemala, Japan and Malaysia and outperforms competitor schools from south of the border in ballet competitions and quality of training; is puzzled by the Minister for Children and Education's view that "there is no evidence of significant demand for Dance and Drama training for young people aged 16 and over in Scotland" when 613 applications were received by Ballet West for 23 places; regrets that 34 students withdrew or rejected offers from Ballet West due to lack of funding, compared with only two students doing so at English institutions; notes that the Excellence Fund supports and encourages talented secondary school dancers in Scotland but that the only progression into tertiary training encouraged by the Scottish Executive is in England; is concerned that Scotland will become denuded of teaching centres of artistic excellence and be drained of artistic talent as a result of this discrimination; believes the current position of the Scottish Executive on this issue contradicts its own cultural strategy that has as its key themes "widening opportunities, promoting education, developing and celebrating excellence" and believes that the Scottish Executive should act in order that students from across the UK can choose where to study dance, drama or stage management based on the quality of course offered rather than on whether or not tuition fees will be paid.
I am pleased to be able to introduce this debate today; I thank all members who signed the motion.
A number of members have asked why the motion is so long—it is the longest motion ever debated in the Parliament. I was concerned that it would not be selected for debate so, in effect, I wrote much of the speech in the motion. However, matters have moved on since then, so forgive me if I elaborate somewhat.
The matter was first brought to my attention by Mr Robert Eadie, who is a resident of the ward that I used to represent on Glasgow City Council. His daughter, Gillian Barton, is artistic director of Ballet West, a company that was founded in 1991 and, in 1995, began to teach full-time classical ballet courses. Ballet West is situated near Taynuilt, in the shadow of Ben Cruachan. Its reputation as a centre of excellence soon spread far and wide throughout the ballet world; its dancers have won numerous awards.
For example, in 1997, Sara-Maria Barton became the first female dancer from Scotland to win an Adeline Genee award in the 63-year history of the competition and the first female from the UK since 1991. Furthermore, in 1999, Kelly McCole was the only British dancer to reach the final of that competition.
Time prevents me from detailing further the numerous other awards that have been won by dancers from Ballet West or the outstanding teaching that it has brought to the school. Suffice it to say, it has now attracted students and teachers not only from across the UK and Europe but from as far afield as Guatemala, Malaysia and Japan. Indeed, that well-known nationalist Billy Connolly was so impressed by Ballet West after its participation in the film "Mrs Brown" that he agreed to be its patron.
Unfortunately, Ballet West believes that its very existence is threatened by an anomaly that differentiates between dance companies north and south of the border. Historically, local councils across the UK were responsible for funding for dance students. With cuts in local authority funding throughout the 1990s, it soon became apparent that receipt of a grant was determined by postcode instead of individual talent.
On 27 November 1998, dance and drama awards—or DADAs—were established by the Department for Education and Employment. A student who wins a place at an institution offering courses in dance, drama and stage management is required to provide £1,050 for their fees, with the remainder being met by the DADA. Students who receive a DADA can also apply to a fees and maintenance fund to pay the student's proportion of the fees. Furthermore, students from England and Wales may receive up to £3,000 towards living expenses, which is means-tested against parental income.
With the change to central Government funding, the system of accreditation has moved from the independent Council for Dance Education and Training to a scheme involving the Further Education Funding Council inspectorate, industry representatives, the DFEE, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and the Arts Council of England. Dance schools on the scheme are required to teach new further education qualifications written and assessed by Trinity College, London.
No Scottish dance school can join the scheme, as education is now a devolved issue. However, the qualifications of Trinity College can be offered and funding for Ballet West provided if ministers give the Scottish Further Education Funding Council guidance to do so.
That is the conundrum. On 31 January, the Executive wrote to Ballet West advising that
"responsibility for ensuring the provision, including the funding, of further education training lies with the Scottish Further Education Funding Council".
However, on 19 February, Ballet West responded:
"The Council cannot provide funding for provision of organisations outwith this list without seeking the agreement of the Scottish Executive".
As that list comprises the organisations that are prioritised by the Executive, I ask the minister to address that issue in his response.
Why is this important? Although dance students from across the UK and European Union are accepted into institutions south of the border on ability, students from Scotland cannot access the fees and maintenance fund. Because of non-accreditation, students at institutions in Scotland, such as Ballet West, receive no funding to pay their fees.
Dance students in Scotland can obtain maintenance grants from their local authority if it is supportive; however, although councils such as Angus, Argyll and Bute and Glasgow are supportive, others are not. As a result, maintenance costs fall on students and their families in a fairly random way, depending on where they live—which is, ironically, why the system south of the border was changed some years ago.
As accreditation does not exist in Scotland, no DADA is available to students at Ballet West. That is an anomaly that the company is keen to have addressed. All fees are currently paid by the families of those who study, which places great strain on such families and limits those who can access ballet training in Scotland by family income, not by talent. For example, the income of 17-year-old Jill Hamilton's family is only £24,000, almost half of which will have to go towards her training and living costs, placing real hardship on a family that simply wish the best for their daughter. Jill's brother and sister must also be considered by the family.
Ironically, although Jill Hamilton is from Appin, which is near Ballet West, she suffers from the double whammy that is imposed by the lack of access to funding for fees and living costs. If she moved to London to study, all but £1,050 of her fees would be paid; however, her family believe that she would receive poorer tuition. Others do not wish their children to move from Scotland at such a young age. As a result, the potential for a Scottish Billy Elliot is very limited.
As the motion indicates, 34 potential students have had to reject offers to study at Ballet West due to lack of funding, compared with only two who have rejected offers at institutions south of the border. So much for social inclusion.
In launching last year's cultural strategy, the Executive talked about
"widening opportunities, promoting education, developing and promoting excellence".
That is not happening for classical ballet dancing in Scotland.
Unless the situation changes, Ballet West may have to move to England, depriving the fragile economy of Taynuilt of income from the dance school and its students, inflicting job losses on teaching and administrative staff and depriving local schoolchildren of supplementary activities in schools, such as dance classes and public performances. That may also lead to an unnecessary drain of creative artistic talent from Scotland.
The Executive has stated in correspondence to Ballet West that
"there is no widespread evidence of demand for post-16 Dance and Drama training in Scotland."
In fact, demand is strong. It would be stronger if access to funding was comparable to that south of the border and if discrimination was ended.
I point out, for the purposes of the Official Report, that I voted erroneously in the previous debate. I offer my apologies to Robin Harper; I was not paying attention when the vote on his amendment was being taken. I hope that that is sufficient to prevent me from getting a doing from the whips.
I shall talk about a related issue. I know that Kenny Gibson has worked hard on the issue of Ballet West, and the school has been in touch with me. There is a severe problem with the support that is provided to young people for dance, drama and music classes. The issue is not so much the payment of tuition fees as the maintenance payments for those young people.
The issue was drawn to my attention by the case of a very talented young woman from Langholm, who won one of the dance and drama awards in Manchester. That enabled her to have her tuition fees paid there. I imagine that a young person from my constituency would find it easier to go down to Manchester than to go up north. The problem that she faced was in getting her maintenance paid. She was advised that, if she had been a student from England, she would have received a maintenance grant from the college. Because she was a student from Scotland, she had to approach her local authority to apply for a grant. Unfortunately, Dumfries and Galloway Council is one of approximately 50 per cent of local authorities that no longer give discretionary bursaries, as a matter of policy.
Although the young woman had her tuition fees paid, she did not have her living costs paid. During the first year of her course, she attempted to support herself through employment. Her family were on a fairly low income and helped as much as they could, but they found it difficult to support her. The situation became impossible as time went on. In dance and drama courses, students are expected to undertake a lot of rehearsal and practice, and it becomes difficult for them to support themselves by means of employment. Unfortunately, the young lady had to give up her course because she was no longer able to support herself. That is a tragedy. A young Scot with a lot of talent was unable to continue with her course because of the way in which our system works.
Normally, I do not support the withdrawal of funding from local authorities to be held centrally. However, in this instance, as there is such a difference in policies between local authorities, I suggest—I have suggested this to the Executive although, so far, it has not bitten—that the element of grant-aided expenditure that is distributed for discretionary bursaries be held centrally. Young Scots from all over the country should be able to apply for that funding, to ensure that there is no longer postcode provision and that all young, talented Scots have equal access to funding—not just for tuition fees, but to maintain them as they develop their talent to the benefit of our country and our cultural identity. It is important to view the matter in the context of our national cultural strategy, and we must encourage our young people as much as we can.
I welcome the debate and congratulate Kenny Gibson on securing it—and on securing a spot or two on the lunchtime and evening news, publicising the problems of Ballet West.
As Kenny Gibson said, he has lodged the largest ever motion in the Scottish Parliament. In this case, size clearly mattered. I hope that it was not a case of bullying through size. The motion has highlighted a bizarre case in which devolution has had an unintended consequence—an unhelpful one, which it should not be beyond the abilities of ministers and quangocrats to rectify.
Money should follow the student, but when we have a system in which a quango decides which courses will be financially supported, we should look for greater latitude. I hope that we can achieve that consensus this evening.
The question whether there is adequate demand has been asked, and I think that the speech within the motion shows that, with some 613 applications for 23 places, there is demand. Are the current arrangements damaging? Yes—34 students have withdrawn or have declined offers. That is not only damaging to the institution; it is damaging to the students who would have liked to study at that college.
Where lies the cultural strategy now? Such a strategy should be about the pulling together of elements through the joined-up government that we hear so much about. It should involve widening opportunities, promoting education and developing and celebrating excellence. I do not see that coming through in the cultural strategy, however, but I hope that the cultural strategy might play a role in relation to the issue that we are discussing.
Where lies the Scottish Government's much-vaunted social justice? Clearly, there is no social justice for students who find themselves having to pay fees that are in many cases quite large and can be more than £10,000. The minister may pirouette as much as he wants—
A horrible thought.
It is a horrible thought, but it might be worse if it were me. The minister may pirouette as much as he wants, but until there is some action rather than ministerial letters, many of us will think that more can be done.
I am sure that similar anomalies will crop up. If the Scottish Parliament, the minister and the Scottish Further Education Funding Council can find an acceptable and practical solution for this case, it might give hope to those in other situations who find that they are not receiving their due support.
I support Kenny Gibson's bringing the matter to our attention and look forward to hearing what the member for the area, George Lyon, has to say—given that I am not aware that he has supported the motion—and what the minister has to say with regard to trying to resolve the matter.
I support the motion that was introduced by Kenny Gibson.
Mike Rowell, the administrator of Ballet West, has been in contact with me since 6 June 2000. I believe that he has written to many MSPs seeking their help and support. I wrote to Mr Galbraith on the issue that we are discussing and have been kept informed of the on-going debate by Mike Rowell.
The original response from the Executive was clear: local authorities had control of the issue and the Executive was taking a hands-off approach. I do not think that that is the right approach. It seems iniquitous that, although dance and drama schemes have been introduced south of the border, Scotland is denying that opportunity to its students. It seems wrong that we do not attempt to resolve the situation.
Two weeks ago, I received a letter from Mr Rowell that said that Allan Wilson—I think—had indicated to him that Ballet West could put its case to the Scottish Further Education Funding Council, which could take a decision on whether to provide funding on a national basis. As a result of the debate, I ask the minister to use his influence to ensure that the Scottish Further Education Funding Council responds to the needs of Ballet West. That will help us ensure that there is equality for dance students in Scotland with dance students south of the border and that they have the opportunity to continue their studies in Scotland instead of having to travel south to seek tuition.
I support Kenny Gibson's motion, but I am sad to say that George Lyon did not sign the motion and neither did any Labour members—perhaps they did not notice it, despite its length.
This is a case of disparities. Scottish students are effectively forced to seek to train in England. Schools such as Ballet West cannot attract students from outside Scotland—that represents a loss of inward investment. We have an inability to compete with English schools on equal terms. I dare to mention those disparities—and dare say that the Deputy Minister for Sport and Culture would accuse me of nationalism in doing so. Nationalism is normal in a nation; what is abnormal is people who do not feel proud of their nation and who do not want it to participate directly in internationalism.
I have been made aware of the case of Flora Doig, who attends Ballet West. Her local authority, Aberdeenshire Council, is one of the local authorities that does not recognise the standard that she has attained—perhaps it does not recognise the school and its standards; perhaps it just does not have the money. Flora's whole family felt forced to go into penury because the alternative, sending the girl to London at the age of 16, did not appeal to them. The family could not afford to go there themselves. There is a problem here.
I suggest to the minister that, if one local authority recognises a ballet school as having an adequate standard for the purposes of funding, all local authorities should be guided by the Executive to recognise it. I urge the minister to give guidance to the SFEFC on the matter.
I congratulate Kenny Gibson on securing the debate. There is no doubt that the current system gives rise to a waste of talent and, to an extent, an artistic brain drain. There is also no doubt that the funding for performing arts students is not the same in Scotland as it is in England and Wales.
I will broaden the debate out from Ballet West, if I may. In my constituency, young people are able to join Forefront, a local performing arts group. It has an excellent reputation, and I have attended a number of its productions, which are of a very high standard. A number of the young people from that company have gone on to train in England. At one point in the early 1990s, funding was available to help them to do that. However, the local council has latterly been unable to find the funding from its discretionary funds. As a result, talent is being wasted, and that is quite unsatisfactory.
I have spent some time over the past year working with Scottish Youth Dance. It runs some excellent programmes. Its millennium programme, attended by more than 500 young people in Dunblane as well as by the then Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport, Rhona Brankin, was an excellent production. It has also had financial difficulties, however, and has found that, although pupils can be trained at the dance school based at Knightswood Secondary School, which has 70 residential pupils studying classical dance, or can train with Scottish Ballet associates or with other professional dancers at a young age, if they are eager to pursue dance as a career, we leave them high and dry. What does that say about our strategy being joined up?
Highly talented students from Forefront who have been accepted by top training institutions for music and dance in England have had to meet their own tuition and maintenance costs, which are very substantial. What does that say about social inclusion? Some of the pupils are from families from quite poor backgrounds, and money has had to be raised in order to support them.
I will not go into detail on the variation among local authorities that Kenny Gibson referred to, but I acknowledge that that variation exists. In all fields, I think that we are too small a country to allow such discrimination, which allows one local authority to tell a talented individual, "Yes, go ahead," but another to say "No." We have to take a grip of the situation and change it.
Young talent is undoubtedly being put off by such financial and cultural barriers. We are too small a country to afford to waste that talent, which can lead to the creation and development of a vibrant culture, as is so rightly encouraged by the cultural strategy. However, we need to put the strategy into practical effect.
The students and pupils whom we educate in Scotland face severe barriers as they attempt to reach a professional standard. They are at a serious disadvantage compared with their counterparts in England and Wales. That is being perceived increasingly, and we should do something about it.
There are other issues. My colleagues at Scottish Youth Dance tell me that they have serious problems in finding qualified teachers in Scotland for their programmes. Ballet West says that the nationalities of the dancers on cast lists are varied. We should favour, develop and respond to the internationalism that classically has been part of our culture. The way in which we promote dance, song, music, culture and drama sends a message around the world about the nature of our civilisation. I strongly encourage the minister to look again at this issue and consider whether we can deal with it on a national basis. We should remove the postcode element to funding and provide adequate funds for this relatively small group, to sustain and ensure the development of our vibrant culture.
I am not sure whether I have to declare an interest, in that I once starred in a ballet. It was performed by the staff of a school at the variety show that we put on annually for the pupils' entertainment. The largest and hairiest members of staff did Tchaikovsky's "Valse des Fleurs" with straight faces. Though I say it myself, it was extremely humorous. Having had two new hips since then, I will not repeat the performance.
The specific issue has been well ventilated by Kenny Gibson, who deserves a lot of credit. The wider issue is that there is still residual discrimination against dance and ballet among many people, who think that ballet is an elitist and slightly effete activity. I think that that is quite wrong. They ignore the fact that dance is a basic activity. Over the past few years, modern dance has been the most successful part of the Edinburgh International Festival, drawing in all sorts of people of all classes and colours from across the world. Dance will be roused to fresh activity by the success of "Billy Elliot". I hope that we can gradually get away from the prejudice against dance.
The issue of how we fund potentially good students has been well covered. The Executive deserves credit for having started to tackle the issue of funding students by getting rid of tuition fees and soon introducing grants for poorer students. However, there are obviously people who are left on the periphery whom we still have to sort out.
One way forward that would retain local control would be for the control of bursaries to lie with the colleges. Obviously, that would have to be monitored in some way by central Scotland. In that way, it would not just be some guy at Victoria Quay, or wherever those people live, who decides who gets and who does not. The college will have investigated most thoroughly the student's circumstances. In many of the less specialised colleges around the country, that happens very successfully. The people who know about the individual's circumstances should be given the power to hand out money to keep them going.
I hope that we will develop not just ballet and modern dance but the Scottish styles of dance—Scottish folk dancing, which is a neglected and lovely activity, and traditional Scottish country dancing. If we thought about it, we would realise that we are quite good at dancing. We should develop those styles of dance.
It is encouraging that so many people are interested in the debate. I hope that the minister will respond to members who have made much better speeches than mine, pushing for the end of the postcode lottery. More power should be given to the colleges and there should be more funding from the centre for what is not an elitist activity. Dance is not just for people who want to be professional dancers. Good local dance activities are good community activities and an antidote to the individualism of gazing at machines and television sets.
I welcome the opportunity with which Kenneth Gibson has presented me to respond for the Executive in this debate. It is an appropriate platform on which to recognise the excellence of much of Scotland's artistic teaching and many of its highly talented students.
In reading Mr Gibson's long motion, and to some extent in listening to members this afternoon, those of us who knew no better could assume that the teaching of dance and drama had vanished from Scotland and had somehow been spirited down south, as students follow the lure of the dance and drama awards scheme. I see Mr Gibson shaking his head, but he knows that that conclusion could not be further from the truth.
I am pleased to tell members that dance and drama tuition is flourishing across Scotland. Within incorporated colleges across the country, students are involved—at both further and higher education levels—with a raft of courses covering many aspects of dance, performance, drama and stage management. In the 1998-99 academic year, 3,932 further education students studied dance and drama-related subjects in Scottish institutions. Many of those will go on to successful professional careers.
Why then, on 21 July 2000, did the Scottish Executive write to Ballet West saying that
"there is no widespread evidence of demand for post-16 Dance and Drama training in Scotland"?
That is why the anomalies that have been discussed in the debate have arisen.
That point was raised by Mr Monteith; I will respond to it in my concluding remarks.
To suggest, as the motion does, that the Executive's policy discriminates against teaching centres of excellence is to belittle the achievements of acclaimed Scottish institutions such as the University of Glasgow, the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama and Queen Margaret University College. Those teaching institutions are renowned for their artistic excellence and their alumni number among them some of our greatest talents. Like many other institutions across Scotland that run courses of artistic excellence, those teaching centres of excellence are recognised by the Executive: they are funded accordingly and their students are supported by the Executive through its funding bodies. I do not understand how it can be suggested that the Executive discriminates against teaching centres of excellence for dance and drama.
The basis of the motion seems to arise not from a concern for the wide spectrum of dance and drama tuition available in Scotland, as has been mentioned by others, but from its supporters' concerns for the economic well-being of Ballet West—a specific private sector dance provider—and its 20 or so student places.
I, too, met Mike Rowell at a surgery in Oban. He clearly outlined the situation. Is the minister saying that Ballet West is not an incorporated college? Is he saying that its degrees and diplomas are not validated along the lines of the other colleges that he mentioned? As I understand it, Ballet West fits all the criteria that normally pertain to funding in further and higher education.
I have said nothing of the sort. I am coming to private sector provision now.
I welcome the part that many private sector providers play in the provision of dance training in Scotland. Mary Scanlon will get no ideological argument with me on that. I applaud Ballet West for the excellence of its training and I appreciate its growing reputation in classical ballet training. However, Ballet West, as a private sector provider, must be responsible for its own commercial viability—the market should provide.
Let me continue. I am sure that I shall come to Linda Fabiani's point.
I recognise that Ballet West's Scottish students—as Elaine Murray, among others, recognised—remain dependent on their local authorities for funding support. Although we have raised the issue of discretionary bursaries with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, I have no powers to direct councils in such matters and I suspect that Parliament would not welcome any attempts by the Executive to curtail local discretion. I hope that authorities recognise that they have significant additional resources and will look at applications positively.
I also hope that Ballet West—which, by the way, is not incorporated and offers no accredited courses—can continue to be commercially successful and to play its part in providing tuition to students of dance. Indeed, I hope that all private sector providers in Scotland can.
The Executive is committed, as laid down in its cultural strategy, to the pursuit of excellence in all forms of art practice in Scotland, as many have recognised. The Executive recognises the importance of education and training in that strategy. The motion focuses our attention on dance and dance tuition. The Executive recognises the point that was made by Richard Simpson and others that the provision of support to various forms of dance is not, nor should it be, static. Neither is it perfect. Over time, some dance forms become more popular and some become less popular. There are important developments in dance and in our understanding of its role in society. A recent example is the report on community dance that was produced by Her Majesty's inspectorate. The provision of training must be sensitive to those developments. We must ensure that our infrastructure for dance is in keeping with modern requirements.
I intervene because I do not know a lot about this subject and I would appreciate some clarification from the minister. Is there any establishment for the excellence of ballet, particularly in the Highlands and Islands, that is funded nationally, apart from the Dance School of Scotland, which is based at Knightswood Secondary School? I am talking about 16-year-olds who have shown a wonderful talent, as Richard Simpson said. We should nurture that talent and export it throughout the world to show what Scotland is capable of. Is there anywhere that is funded nationally that pupils over 16 can attend to develop those talents? If there were, those pupils would not have to leave home and go to other countries to study.
Linda Fabiani has raised the point that I was steadily making my way towards in concluding our debate.
Brian Monteith, Kenny Gibson and others talked about demand. It is difficult to assess the demand for dance training in Scotland. There is anecdotal evidence from Ballet West on oversubscribed places, but there is no sector-wide information on the demand-resource match. Ten further education students were on the DADA scheme in 1999-2000, although that small number may reflect the highly competitive nature of the scheme rather than a low Scottish demand for places.
I have yet to be convinced that we have a major problem, although I am convinced that a problem exists. As a direct consequence of today's debate—I am departing from my script, which is always dangerous—I will discuss the needs of dance with the Scottish Arts Council. I will mention to my colleague the Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning and Gaelic the representations to the Scottish Further Education Funding Council to which George Lyon, Winnie Ewing and Donald Gorrie, among others, referred. I will also discuss the implications of those representations with the appropriate minister.
Meeting closed at 17:42.