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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 25 Feb 2004

Meeting date: Wednesday, February 25, 2004


Contents


Fresh Talent

The next item of business is a statement by Jack McConnell on fresh talent. The First Minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions.

The First Minister (Mr Jack McConnell):

I start by expressing the grief that we all feel following the death of Suhail Saleh. His mother had been granted refugee status in our country. That such a tragedy should occur so early in the new life of that family is particularly sad and our thoughts are with his mother and brothers today. His death will also be a loss for his school community, but All Saints is a good school, with a great head teacher, and I know that pupils, parents and staff will pull together at this difficult time and that they will have our support.

Today, I wish to make a statement on our new policy to attract fresh talent to Scotland. The policy is designed to tackle the most serious long-term issue facing our country. Scotland's population is falling; it is declining at a faster rate than that of anywhere else in Europe. That decline, coupled with a significant shift in Scotland's age profile, is making a serious problem even worse. By 2009, Scotland's population will fall below the symbolic 5 million level. By 2027, there could be, on current projections, a quarter of a million fewer people of working age in Scotland. Those projections are a result of there being more deaths in Scotland than births. We know that for centuries Scots emigrated throughout the world, but net emigration is almost insignificant now. Basically, fewer people leave Scotland, but only a few come to live here.

The challenge is now to counter demographic change, but before I lay out the details of our Government's plans to tackle Scotland's declining population, there is one message that I want to make very clear. The first priority of the Government in Scotland must always be to nurture and retain home-grown talent. Helping to meet the hopes and aspirations of the Scottish people should be the motivation of every one of us in this chamber. However, those hopes and aspirations will not be met if our devolved Government does not act to counter what I believe to be the greatest threat to Scotland's future prosperity.

Population decline is serious. Tax revenues will fall. Falling school rolls mean that local schools will close, other local services will become less sustainable and communities will become weaker. The labour market will contract, there will be fewer consumers to underpin a domestic market and our economy will be less dynamic and more likely to contract overall. We can and must do something about that. Although future projections demonstrate demographic shifts of considerable magnitude, taken step by step the challenge looks easier to deal with.

Our first target must be to avoid our population falling below 5 million. To do that, we need an additional 8,000 people living in Scotland each year between now and 2009. We want to meet that target in three ways: by retaining home-grown talent within Scotland; by encouraging Scots who have moved away to come back home; and by attracting some who are completely new to Scotland—from the rest of the United Kingdom, from the European Union and from further afield.

Devolution was created for this precise purpose: to tackle a tough, long-term problem in our national interest. It is absolutely in the interest of every Scottish family that we create a country that is dynamic and growing, with opportunities for our children and our grandchildren. To do that, we need to attract and welcome new people. We need fresh talent. A more diverse, more cosmopolitan country is good for Scots. It will open minds and broaden horizons. It will stimulate ambitions and ideas—to travel, to see some of the world, to learn from others, but to come home, too. Some think that people will move only if there are job opportunities and others think that people locate only according to the quality of life. I believe that the truth is somewhere in between.

Of course, Scotland needs a growing economy and Scotland's economy is growing—not as fast as it could be, but there are signs that it will grow more quickly in the medium term. More ideas are coming out of our universities, there is increased commercialisation, there are greater levels of entrepreneurial activity and more Scots are learning, training and using their skills. There are more jobs and more vacancies and, in a few sectors, there are even shortages.

Scotland has a unique selling point. We are lucky that we are known to be one of the friendliest and most educated peoples in the world. We have a vibrant culture, stunning countryside, excellent schools, decent transport links and good public services. In short, it is good to live in Scotland. I believe that, in the modern world, businesses increasingly choose to locate in the places where the people whom they want to employ want to live.

Exactly a year ago today, I made the case that Scotland needs to attract fresh talent to our shores to secure future prosperity for Scotland. In 12 months, we have developed a national consensus that that must be a priority. I believe that the issue is too important to be party political. We cannot allow new people to be welcomed by some and not by others. We will not be able to attract fresh talent to Scotland if our country speaks with different voices. Although we in the chamber might debate the best way of attracting new people to Scotland, I hope that we can agree on one thing—Scotland's projected population decline is something that we must tackle and one important way of doing that is to welcome others to Scotland to contribute to our economy and to our country.

Therefore, today I am announcing an initial package of measures to attract fresh talent. We have published a policy statement, which is available to all members. First, we will get better at promoting Scotland—our people and our country. Later this year, we will step up our global effort to promote our country as a place to visit, a place to do business and a place to live and work. Here, we will establish a relocation advisory service, which will be operational from October, to assist and advise those who wish to live and work in Scotland. We seek, over time, to create a seamless service that streamlines UK, Scottish and local public services. That will make it easier for people to move here. We will also use the reorganised Friends of Scotland and global Scot networks to target the Scottish diaspora for tourism, for business and for fresh talent.

Secondly, I have agreed with the UK Government measures actively to promote Scotland as a destination for people seeking to use the work permit route to come into the UK. Work permits (UK) will actively promote itself within Scotland and will work with us to make the system easier for Scottish employers to access. Scotland will actively promote itself within work permits (UK) with literature, advice and internet services. Work permits (UK) will also be a partner in the new relocation advisory service. Because small businesses do not have access to the central resources of big business to use the work permit system to their best advantage, we will create a toolkit with them to help them to do so.

Thirdly, Scotland already has the fantastic advantage of being a net importer of students from the UK, the European Union and further afield. Around 50,000 non-Scots are studying in Scotland right now. Our universities are world class; they are diverse and creative and they generate a wealth of ideas and energy. Today, we send a clear message to all those students who come to Scotland. We would like them to stay after they graduate and we encourage them to consider making Scotland their permanent home. We want them to help us to grow the Scottish economy.

I can announce today that the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, has agreed to our request to allow all overseas students who graduate from Scottish universities, if they wish to live and work here, to stay an additional two years before residence. That will be in place from summer 2005. They will be allowed to stay in Scotland and seek any type of work during that time. After that, they can switch into other legal migration routes for which they qualify. I believe that that is an immensely important signal. It is the first time that there has been such flexibility within the UK immigration system. Flexibility allows the management of migration into the UK to respond to local requirements.

I can also announce that the Home Office has agreed that we should work with it, as its policy of managed migration develops over time, on further flexibilities that would allow us to attract more talent to Scotland. To do that, we have created a joint working group of officials from the Executive and the Home Office. That is a perfect example of devolution working at its best in partnership with the UK Government.

We will provide central support to help Scottish higher education institutions to recruit from overseas in a more systematic way. The Scottish Government will also develop a scholarship scheme for overseas graduates, which will focus on the entrepreneurial contribution that those students can make.

The signal to would-be students across the world, to our universities and to business is strong and clear. We say to would-be students: "Scotland is the place to study; our universities are world class; our cities are thriving and our country welcomes you." We say to our universities: "Your track record is excellent and from today you should build on your strengths and increase your profile internationally." We say to business: "An increasing number of the tens of thousands of very bright graduates who leave Scottish universities each year will want to stay in Scotland and now they can do so; so if you want the best graduates to work for you, you will need to move to Scotland to get them."

I also have a clear message for the parents of Scottish teenagers: our announcements today do not threaten their university places. Opportunities for Scottish school leavers will always be at the top of our list. The fresh talent policy is about making sure that there are enough people to make our schools, public services and universities viable and sustainable in the longer term.

The fourth part of the initial package focuses on first impressions. We should talk our country up, promote the best of ourselves and encourage others to come to Scotland, but we must also be mindful of what others see when they come to Scotland for the first time. I regularly meet senior figures in Scotland's top companies who stress the importance of first impressions of this country. The fact that we are a welcoming country should be clearly reflected in our ports, airports and bus and rail stations. There needs to be a fresh approach and a national effort to achieve that.

As the policy develops and its success beds in, there will be further implications for public policy. To date, we have been preparing ourselves for inevitable population decline and for a dramatically aging population. From today, however, decline is no longer inevitable and we should prepare ourselves for the possibility of growth. There might specifically be an impact on projected housing demand. Margaret Curran, the Minister for Communities, will examine the implications of the fresh talent policy on our housing policy and consider how we should respond.

In conclusion, I believe that the proposals that I have outlined today represent a good start in demonstrating that Scotland is serious about growth. We want to grow our economy and we want our country to grow, too—in profile, in image and in stature. A policy of nurturing and retaining home-grown talent, encouraging ex-Scots to come home and attracting fresh talent to our country sends a strong signal to the world: Scotland is back on the map and is making her mark. This is a bold step for a small devolved country such as ours to take, but it is one to which I am confident that our people will rise. For centuries we have been welcomed overseas; now it is time for Scotland to be as welcoming in return. Our message today is clear. We are saying, "If you have ambitions, and if you want to live and work in a dynamic country with a good quality of life, this is the time and Scotland is the place."

The First Minister will now take questions on the issues that he raised in his statement. I will allow around 20 to 22 minutes for that.

Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):

First, I associate my party with the sympathy that the First Minister expressed on the tragic death of Suhail Saleh. Our thoughts are with his mother, his brothers and his friends at All Saints Secondary School in Glasgow.

I unreservedly welcome the First Minister's statement and take this opportunity to acknowledge the journey that the First Minister has travelled on the issue. In his statement, he accepted for the first time the need for different approaches to immigration north and south of the border—and there was no mention of border posts or controls between Scotland and England. We can now assume that such talk will have no place in the lexicon of the First Minister or in that of his colleagues. The measures that the First Minister has announced have the full support of the Scottish National Party.

The First Minister said that he had reached agreement with the Home Secretary to allow students who graduate from Scottish universities to stay in Scotland for an additional two-year period. Does the First Minister accept that a greater proportion of our young people go to university than is the case in the rest of the United Kingdom and that the problem is that the proportion of graduates in our work force is less than the proportion in the rest of the United Kingdom? Does he therefore accept that, although we might well take measures to encourage people to come to Scotland, the greater and more demanding challenge is to create the vibrant economic opportunities that will encourage young people to stay in Scotland on a permanent basis?

The First Minister said in his statement:

"We will not be able to attract fresh talent to Scotland if our country speaks with different voices."

I have assured him today of the SNP's full support for the measures that he has announced. He went on to say:

"we must also be mindful of what others see when they come to Scotland for the first time."

Does he agree that we will not attract fresh talent to Scotland if their first impressions of Scotland are of a country that is prepared to tolerate the imprisonment of innocent children in the Dungavel detention centre?

The First Minister:

I welcome Mr Swinney's general welcome for the project. I look forward to sustaining an all-party approach to the project in the months and years ahead.

As I said in my statement and have said regularly in the past, I believe that it is vital that we retain our home-grown talent in Scotland and that we attract people who have gone overseas to come back to their home country. I also believe that that will not be enough—we must attract people who have come to Scotland from other lands to stay in Scotland, to be part of our community and to help us to grow our economy. Currently, a third of our non-Scots graduates choose to stay in Scotland either to continue to study or to work. That is not enough. We can increase the figure and the challenge is for us to do so using the new policies.

On Mr Swinney's final point, I do not believe that it is in the interests of creating a good impression of Scotland to separate children from their parents. I have made that point before in the chamber and I am happy to debate it with Mr Swinney on other occasions. I hope that today is not the day when we will go down that road.

My final point relates to Mr Swinney's question about growth in the Scottish economy. It is precisely because it is essential to have an active, dynamic economy to attract fresh talent that we have been striving to achieve just such an economy. As I said in my statement, Scotland's economy is now growing again. Indeed, there are signs that it will grow more quickly.

Our ambitions have to be greater. The signs tell us—in fact, the evidence tells us—of the ideas that are coming out of our universities, the increased commercialisation, the levels of entrepreneurial activity that were recorded earlier this week by the global entrepreneurial monitor, the number of Scots who are learning and using their skills in Scotland, the number of people in employment and the number of people elsewhere in the world who would like to be in employment in Scotland to fill the shortages in some areas. All those are indicators that Scotland is on the verge of what is potentially a very special time in our economy. Population decline threatens that, which is why we have to tackle it. I hope that together we might be able to do so.

David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):

I begin by echoing on behalf of members on the Conservative benches the sympathies that were ably expressed by the First Minister and Mr Swinney in respect of the death of Suhail Saleh.

I do not think that anyone would disagree with the First Minister's identification that our falling population is a matter of genuine concern or that there is a need for us to join in giving a warm welcome to all those who choose to come and live and work in Scotland.

The basic problem with some of the proposals that were outlined by the First Minister today is that they put the cart before the horse. The First Minister and the Executive seem to think that adopting a range of micromeasures to encourage people to come and work in Scotland will somehow improve our economic performance. I suggest to him that people will come and stay in Scotland not because of any advertising campaign, but because Scotland is successful economically, which makes it an attractive place in which to live and work, with opportunities for advancement. I suggest to him that that is what we should be concentrating on.

We were told by the First Minister in his statement that the proposals build on those that were announced earlier this week by Mr Blunkett, with an added Scottish dimension. However, tinkering with United Kingdom immigration policy in that way sets a dangerous precedent and plays into the hands of the Scottish National Party, which wants a Scotland-only immigration policy, as Mr Swinney was quick to note in his remarks.

I have specific questions for the First Minister on the visa extension policy. Does the two-year visa extension for foreign students really apply only to those who graduate from Scottish universities? Are foreign students who graduate from English universities to be denied the extension, even if they want to live and work in Scotland? During the two-year period, what is to stop people moving to England if they are offered a job there? Will they be granted, in effect, a Scotland-only work permit? Can the First Minister tell us whether the new visa rules will require legislation at Westminster, or can they be introduced simply with a stroke of the Home Secretary's ministerial pen?

What is the purpose behind all this playing with fire with immigration and employment policy? The First Minister said that 50,000 non-Scots are studying in Scotland right now, but when we take away students from other parts of the United Kingdom and from EU countries, who already have the right to reside and work here, we are left with only 13,000 overseas students, many of whom are sponsored by their Governments and aid agencies so that their skills as doctors, scientists and engineers can be used to develop their own countries. We know that the figure is not 50,000 students and that it certainly will not be 13,000 students, so perhaps the First Minister can tell us what his estimate is of the numbers who will actually apply every year for the Scottish visa extension, which will be available from 2005.

Finally, I suggest to the First Minister that he might be better sticking to his own job rather than doing David Blunkett's, and that putting our own house in order is the key to encouraging population growth and attracting skilled workers. [Interruption.]

Order. Come on now.

Presiding Officer—

David McLetchie:

Be quiet, Mr Rumbles. You might learn something.

Will the First Minister accept the evidence from overseas that the countries that offer the best economic opportunities are the most successful at attracting people? In other words, if we build those opportunities, people will come.

The First Minister:

We are building them, and people are coming. Just this morning, I met a group of students and people working in research who have come from all over the world—from Mexico, France and Spain. I even met a young gentleman from Tenerife who came to Scotland—as perhaps tens of thousands of Scots go to his area every year. All those people were here because of the product that they were involved in creating, which is being used commercially not only by oil and gas companies throughout the world, but by the American navy to carry out subsea operations and investigations. They are proud of their work and are delighted to be in Scotland. They will become ambassadors for our country in the years to come. Those are precisely the kind of people we need in Scotland, contributing to our economy and giving Scotland a new place in the world.

I am afraid that if we in Scotland end up indulging in any party-political or nationalistic—with a big N or a small n—squabble over this policy, we will fail.

It is critical for Scotland that we reverse the decline. I would not have made this point today if it had not been for Mr McLetchie's contribution, but we must in particular reverse the decline of the 18 years up to 1997. We will not reverse that decline without an ambitious programme of going for growth. Investment in research and new ideas is creating the levels of commercialisation, entrepreneurial activity, new business start-ups and growth in our economy that will provide the jobs for the moment that will encourage others to come in the future.

Mr McLetchie asks a number of specific questions. Of course the visa programme will not apply to students who graduate from English universities, but if such students have a job in Scotland, their employers here will be able to apply for a work permit for them. As I outlined in my statement, the British Government will enthusiastically support applications for work permits in Scotland.

People who stay on to work in Scotland after completing their degrees and who at some point choose to go across the border to England will not somehow be trapped in Scotland. Our job is to motivate people to stay in Scotland and I am confident that we can do that. The proposals are about ambitions, not restrictions; they are about ensuring that Scotland is a desirable place in which to live and work. The Home Secretary has guaranteed that he will make the measures happen quickly. He has also guaranteed that he is prepared to look for further opportunities for flexibilities in the immigration system to ensure that we turn round the population decline in Scotland in the longer term.

I have one final point in response to Mr McLetchie's questions, which is that I believe that the proposals are an example of devolution inside the United Kingdom working in practice. There is no separate immigration policy for Scotland, but flexibility within the UK immigration policy will give us a competitive advantage to allow us to arrest population decline and create a growing economy in the years to come. I cannot believe that anybody who has ambitions, hopes, desires and dreams for Scotland is against that or finds it unsavoury—I would be shocked if that were the case. I hope that, out there, the Scottish public will put aside any concerns that they might have about tensions that may have existed in the past—here, as elsewhere in western Europe—and say that our country is welcoming and wants to go places and that we want people, wherever they come from, to be part of that.

I have allowed the leaders of the two principal Opposition parties considerable latitude, but I must now ask for shorter questions and answers.

Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):

I welcome the First Minister's statement, particularly given that constituencies such as mine face a sharp decline in population and the consequences that follow from that. The statement certainly outlined the opportunities and demonstrated the benefits.

Does the First Minister agree that if we are determined to make Scotland a destination of choice for young talent, it is vital to understand what attracts young people here and what pushes them away? Where better to start such a dialogue than at IBM in Greenock, which employs 1,000 foreign nationals? Those people, who are all expert in information technology and have language skills, are bridging the skills gap. Will the First Minister come to talk with some of those workers and extend a personal invitation to them to stay in Scotland?

The First Minister:

I would be delighted to take up that opportunity, not least because Gordon Smith from IBM, who is the current president of the Confederation of British Industry Scotland, was a member of the group that devised the proposals and gave us considerable support. IBM is a good example, partly because there are so many such workers there, but also because IBM is in the heart of one of the few parts of urban Scotland that is suffering the sort of population decline that is faced, for example, in the Western Isles. I would be delighted to visit IBM in Greenock and to use it as an example to attract others to Scotland.

Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):

I welcome the First Minister's statement. As I am the member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, nobody needs to tell me about the declining population. In some of the remotest parts of Scotland, we see its effects at their most awful.

One matter that will further discourage people from coming to live in the far north is the problem, which the First Minister knows about, with consultant-led maternity services, doctors and dentists in Caithness. As those people go, we will discourage people from staying in the far north or from moving there. Does he agree that the policy that he has outlined today will give us a chance to address that problem by taking those professions into the areas of Scotland where they are needed? Will he assure the chamber that he will encourage the relocation advisory service to think along those lines? Will he encourage it to work hand in hand with, for example, Highland NHS Board, the social work department and other agencies, so that there can be a complete overlapping of policy?

The First Minister:

The Executive would want the relocation advisory service to work closely with public bodies that are recruiting specialists in those areas. That would particularly be the case in those parts of Scotland that are suffering shortages. I add one caveat to that: it is important that we in the developed world do not unfairly remove skilled workers, particularly in the public sector, from parts of the world that desperately need them. I am thinking of, for example, parts of Africa that are suffering substantial losses of doctors and teachers because of AIDS. At the same time, there are parts of the world and groups of professions from which we can attract people to work in this country to fill the gaps until we are able to train more doctors, consultants, dentists and others. In such cases, I would be very keen that we take up those opportunities.

Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):

I welcome the First Minister's achievement of developing flexibility in the UK immigration system and his recognition that education is one of the key ways in which to attract people to Scotland. I would therefore like to know whether he and the joint working group that he mentioned will consider flexibility in the international students visa. As he is aware, the new international students visa charge was introduced last year with no consultation and only three weeks' notice. Each international student has to pay between £150 and £250 for their visa. Surely, as part of the move towards flexibility, it would be an important signal to would-be students that Scotland really welcomes them and the skills that international students studying in Scotland can bring if that charge were to be waived when they came to study in Scotland.

The First Minister:

The issue of the international students visa is a complex one, because large numbers of such students are sponsored by their Governments or by private interests in their own countries to come here for initial training. I recognise that, in those circumstances, it is not unreasonable for our Government to recoup the costs. However, the issue of the costs associated with applying for a visa is one that the Executive might want to consider in future in the light of experience. We would certainly keep an open mind about whether there is a need for us to address that issue in order to secure sufficient numbers of students, and to retain them in Scotland.

Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):

I welcome the positive tone of the First Minister's statement at a time when, unfortunately, so much of the commentary around immigration tends to be negative. Does he agree that, as well as try to attract new people to Scotland, we should seek to use the talents that are already here? In that spirit, will he encourage the Home Secretary to restore to the thousands of highly educated and skilled asylum seekers already living in Scotland the right to seek permission to work? Does he agree that that would be of benefit not only to the Scottish economy, in matching skills to labour shortages, but to the asylum seekers themselves, who desperately want to make a contribution to Scottish society and not to be forced to be dependent on state handouts?

The First Minister:

That it is a reserved matter. I do not necessarily speak on behalf of the—[Interruption.] The member should listen to the point before intervening.

I do not necessarily speak on behalf of the whole coalition partnership, but my view is that the best way to assist asylum seekers is to determine their cases as quickly as possible so that work is available for those who have been granted asylum and refugee status in this country. As the member knows, we were involved in discussions with the Home Office last year to help with that process. When people seek asylum in this country, we do what we can to help them to integrate with the local community. The best way to have those who are genuine asylum seekers and those who will get refugee status in this country working is to process their cases quickly and to secure that opportunity for them.

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):

Like many others, I welcome the First Minister's statement. As someone who has a Portuguese father and a Scottish mother and was born in Hong Kong, I recognise the benefits that in-migration can bring to any country. Unlike the SNP, I think that what we are discussing is an example of devolution working at its best—a clear demonstration of strength in working together with our colleagues in the UK Government. The First Minister is to be congratulated on his efforts.

Given the First Minister's comments in response to the point that Jamie Stone made, will he consider specific measures, such as the international fellowship scheme and the global recruitment programme that the Department of Health at Westminster runs, to encourage consultants and other medical professionals from around the world to come to Scotland?

The First Minister:

I think that those schemes are important, subject to the caveat that I mentioned earlier. There are pools of talent around the world that we can use in our public services, but this is also about a growing, vibrant, thriving private sector in the Scottish economy and ensuring that the skills are there to enable existing and new companies to grow and create the wealth that will fund public services.

Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP):

The fact has been welcomed that the First Minister—the same First Minister who remains silent over the imprisonment of children at Dungavel—has been vocal today about the need to attract more migrants to Scotland. Is not the tone of his remarks today in welcoming labour from abroad in stark contrast to that of those made in the past, when economic migrants were considered scroungers and undesirables? Is it not the case that the Executive is sending out the message today that it wishes to welcome the rich and talented, but reject the poor and needy?

The First Minister:

Absolutely not. Those who will be able to make a contribution to our communities and to growing Scotland's economy in the years to come will come from many walks of life and many countries. We should not be selective and derogatory in the way that Colin Fox implies. I have never used the word "scroungers" in relation to anybody in our society, but I make the distinction between skilled migrants—people making a contribution to our economy whom we need to attract—and those who would come here simply to claim benefits. David Blunkett's announcements earlier this week struck the right balance between planning for managed migration that gets our economy growing and ensuring that migration does not become a drain on our economy. That is a good balance and it can win public support.

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):

I welcome the First Minister's commitment to tackling the issue of population decline, although whether his measures will be effective remains to be seen. I have a specific question for him on visas for foreign students, which is something about which my colleague David McLetchie asked him, although the First Minister did not answer the question. How many of the 13,000 eligible students does he believe will take up the offer? Given that the Executive is keen on targets, will he tell us what is his target for the number of foreign students who will wish to stay on in Scotland?

The First Minister:

As I said earlier about our challenge, there is no target—we should not have limits on our ambitions in the same way that we should not have reductions in our targets. We need to retain or attract into the Scottish population on average 8,000 more people every year between now and 2009 in order to stop our population falling below 5 million. That is a good starting point and we should try to achieve it. To do so, we could ensure that the net outflow of migration from Scotland each year, which is approximately 2,000 people, is reduced between now and 2009. We could attract more of the 13,000 overseas students from outside the European Union to stay here—approximately a third do so just now. It would not take a huge increase to make a significant step towards that figure. We could also attract more people—both students and people who have not been students—from inside the EU and the UK and from elsewhere in the world to make their contribution.

The students whom I met this morning in Edinburgh had done their degrees in Mexico, Spain, Belgium, Egypt and other parts of the world and had come to Scotland to carry out pioneering research, which they described as the best in the world. We should not limit our ambitions simply to attracting overseas students who are graduating here, but they are a key target market for us—if I can put it that way. They are a huge resource that we are not tapping sufficiently and that is why we have given them such priority as a starting point for the fresh talent project.

Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab):

Will the First Minister agree to examine the opportunities that could be afforded to Scottish business and education by the recruitment of native linguists with experience and knowledge in particular of the new EU member states and their business and education cultures? Does he agree that that could open the way for future investment and economic partnerships with the accession countries at a time when their economies will be developing and attracting quite a lot of European regional development money?

The First Minister:

Irene Oldfather's comments are valid. The point that she makes in relation to the eastern European countries that will join the EU is one that should not concern people in Scotland. People from Poland, Lithuania and other eastern European countries came here after the second world war, worked hard and became proud to be part of our communities. They have made a significant contribution to Scotland over the years. Whether people come from eastern Europe or from countries whose languages are more commonly used in Scotland, such as France and Spain, it is not only their linguistic skills but their connections that can be put to use. The professor leading the project that I visited this morning made a good point. He said that the researchers who are working for him are winning him contracts in France, Mexico and elsewhere not only because they can speak the languages but because they can promote Scotland in their home countries. That will be a powerful tool for Scottish business in the years to come.

Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):

I welcome the First Minister's statement—in particular, I welcome the inclusion of many of the proposals that I included in my paper on depopulation three years ago.

I want to make two practical suggestions. One of our key objectives is to retain home-grown and foreign graduates in Scotland. Will the First Minister consider making greater use of the graduate placement programmes that are currently run successfully by Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise as a way of boosting the retention of graduates in Scotland and simultaneously helping small and medium-sized enterprises?

Secondly, the First Minister said earlier that this was an initial statement and mentioned the problem of a relatively low birth rate. Will he address that issue and learn the lesson of countries such as Sweden and France that have attempted to boost their birth rate by introducing more comprehensive child care policies so that parents can mix career and family? That is something to which I am sure that everyone in the chamber would want to make their own contribution. [Laughter.]

The First Minister:

One has to be careful when talking about such subjects but I am sure that every member will want to join me in congratulating Paul Martin on today's addition to the Scottish population—a little girl who was born this morning at 10 o'clock, I believe. I hope that she is fresh talent.

Alex Neil's contribution was helpful. He is right to say that the programmes that are being run by Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise are good. They will certainly have a part to play in the initiative that I have outlined today.

On the issue of the birth rate, there is considerable evidence that the provision of additional child care does not necessarily encourage parents to have more children and that, in many cases, it can encourage people to stay on at work and not have more children. A mixed message can be sent by that proposal.

Any improvements in Scotland's birth rate would deliver an improvement in our working-age population in around 20 years' time. However, the problem that Scotland faces is immediate. I believe that we should follow the international examples that have worked best, which are those that have tried to attract fresh talent from abroad. As I said earlier, if we do that, we can succeed.