Business Motion
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S4M-01403, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business—
Wednesday 30 November 2011
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Public Sector Pensions
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 1 December 2011
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Labour Party Business
11.40 am General Question Time
12.00 pm First Minister’s Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time
Infrastructure and Capital Investment;
Culture and External Affairs
2.55 pm Scottish Government Debate: Lord Carloway’s Review of Criminal Procedure
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 7 December 2011
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 8 December 2011
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Government Business
11.40 am General Question Time
12.00 pm First Minister’s Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time
Education and Lifelong Learning
2.55 pm Scottish Government Business
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business—[Bruce Crawford.]
There are two requests to speak against the business motion. The standing orders state that there can be only one speaker for and one speaker against a business motion. In accordance with rule 8.11.3, each speaker is permitted to speak for a maximum of five minutes.
17:00
I rise on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party to oppose, again, the business motion in the name of the Scottish National Party Scottish Government, in respect of the business that is proposed for Wednesday 30 November.
Members will be aware that the motion proposes that the Parliament debate public sector pensions on the proposed day of action. It must concern the people who will take action throughout the country that a Con-Dem-SNP pact has been formed today to manufacture such a debate, perhaps as a ploy to give SNP members dispensation to attend the Parliament on that day.
Members: Rubbish!
Can we please hear the member?
Presiding Officer, can I say to SNP members: “Dream on”? They might have staked their claim to be supporting men and women during the recent Scottish Parliament elections, but next Wednesday their hypocrisy will be exposed. The failure of SNP members to oppose the erosion of workers’ rights will never be forgotten.
As I said last week, we continue to hope that the dispute can be resolved. I repeat what I said last week: the SNP Government has a role in dealing with the dispute; it has a role in looking at ways in which it can resolve it. I repeat that Mr Swinney is in a position to reverse increases in the employee contributions to national health service, teachers’, police and firefighters’ pensions.
Again as I said last week, the dispute is on a scale that has never been seen before in this country. Union members took their decision after a great deal of consideration and negotiation. It is now time to decide whose side they will be on on 30 November—[Interruption.]
Order. Can we hear the member, please? There is too much noise in the chamber.
We will support the men and women throughout the country and we will be fighting to protect their conditions. We make no apologies for that. I ask members to oppose the business motion in the name of the Scottish Government.
17:03
I do not want to go over all the points that I made in the similar debate last week, but some points require to be re-emphasised.
First, let me be clear: as I said last week, this Government fully respects the rights of employees who might choose to withdraw their labour on the day of action that is planned for 30 November. We have sympathy with the substance of public sector workers’ concerns about the United Kingdom Government’s attack on their pensions. We think that the UK Government’s approach to pension reform is wrong. It is the wrong decision, at the wrong time. We are urging the UK Government to reconsider and we will continue to do so. The decision is wrong because it is nothing more than a naked cash grab that does nothing to address the long-term sustainability of pensions. Let me also be clear that the Scottish Government is committed to public sector pensions that are affordable, sustainable and fair.
On the action that is planned for 30 November, I recognise that there are two competing arguments for the Parliament to consider: first, members’ positions on not crossing picket lines at the Scottish Parliament when public sector workers take industrial action; and secondly, the principle that we were put here in a privileged position when we were elected to the Parliament to represent all our constituents’ views. We have a public duty to do just that by discussing the issues that matter to the people of Scotland.
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving way. Last week Parliament agreed to hold business on 30 November. I do not like that, but it has happened. The business motion we are discussing now specifically schedules a debate on the pensions issue. Does the cabinet secretary not understand that members who take the view that it is wrong to cross a picket line in these circumstances represent an important strand of opinion in that debate? Why is he specifically scheduling this debate at a time that excludes that important strand of opinion?
I will respond by quoting Mr Jim Sillars from The Scotsman of 21 November. He said:
“A Parliament is not an office or a factory. It is the heart, soul and the instrument whereby civic society gains its democratic legitimacy for the protection of free speech and rule by the ballot box.”
I have not always agreed with Jim Sillars’s view, but on this occasion I think that he is absolutely correct.
We respect the position that the Labour Party and the Green Party have taken, but we cannot agree with them. I will not be drawn into an argument with the Labour Party on this issue when its chosen target is the Scottish National Party. The real target is the UK Government in London: it is what we should be attacking.
Members: Hear, hear.
We will not fall into that trap and the Labour Party does the workers of Scotland a disservice by trying to achieve that.
As I said last week, it is clear that the UK Government does not speak for Scotland on this matter and therefore it is even more important, to answer Patrick Harvie, that this Parliament does so on 30 November. In a debate on that day we have the opportunity to say loud and clear from this national Parliament of Scotland, “You are wrong and it is time to think again.” The Parliamentary Bureau and not the SNP Government—although I am pleased that we put this to the bureau—decided and agreed on Tuesday to debate public sector pensions on the afternoon of Wednesday 30 November. I recommend that business to Parliament.
The question is, that motion S4M-01403, in the name of Bruce Crawford, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Adam, Brian (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Mackenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McDonald, Mark (North East Scotland) (SNP)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McLetchie, David (Lothian) (Con)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Robertson, Dennis (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Salmond, Alex (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Scott, John (Ayr) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Urquhart, Jean (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Walker, Bill (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
Against
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Eadie, Helen (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Park, John (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
The result of the division is: For 81, Against 36, Abstentions 0.
Motion agreed to,
That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business—
Wednesday 30 November 2011
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Public Sector Pensions
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 1 December 2011
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Labour Party Business
11.40 am General Question Time
12.00 pm First Minister’s Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time
Infrastructure and Capital Investment;
Culture and External Affairs
2.55 pm Scottish Government Debate: Lord Carloway’s Review of Criminal Procedure
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 7 December 2011
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Business Motion
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 8 December 2011
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Scottish Government Business
11.40 am General Question Time
12.00 pm First Minister’s Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time
Education and Lifelong Learning
2.55 pm Scottish Government Business
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business