Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, June 22, 2023

Official Report 1203KB pdf

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Portfolio Question Time

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Social Justice

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Adult Disability Payments (Delays)

Presiding Officer, in the light of your news, I wonder whether I could, on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party, offer our deepest condolences to Fergus and Annabelle Ewing and all members of the family. There is no doubt that Winnie Ewing’s contribution to Scotland and this Parliament was immense. I well remember listening to her as the very first person to open and speak in this Parliament.

I will now ask my question.

To ask the Scottish Government for what reason there was a delay of more than 80 days in processing 70 per cent of adult disability payments in April 2023. (S6O-02408)

With your permission, Presiding Officer, I thank Jackie Baillie for her kind words.

Winnie was the first Presiding Officer of this Parliament. She reconvened this Parliament, and much will be said about her role in the SNP and the independence movement. I still have in my office the card that she sent me when I was first elected, and I looked at it before I came down the stairs today—hence, I think, why I am so emotional.

She was a trailblazer for women, particularly in my party, but not just for the SNP. Much will be said about her role in the SNP and the independence movement, as I said, but I hope that, today, the whole Parliament can join me in paying tribute to Winnie. Hers was a life well lived, and her contribution to public life in Scotland is hard for us to measure. On behalf of my party and our members, I pay tribute to Winnie and give our deepest condolences to Fergus, Annabelle, Terry and their families at what is the hardest time for any family, but particularly for those in public life.

I will now answer Jackie Baillie’s question.

Fifty three per cent of decisions on ADP were made in less than four months. However, we know that some people are waiting an unacceptably long time for adult disability payments. Urgent and concerted action is being taken to speed the process up, with every step of the application and decision-making process having been examined.

Social Security Scotland will continue to deliver ADP in a different way to the DWP, supporting people to apply and, where required, collecting supporting information for them. Under the previous system, people had to do that themselves before applying. The agency’s focus is also on getting the decision right the first time, and statistics show that that is working, with only 6 per cent of people asking for a redetermination. People can also be assured that all payments are backdated to the date of application.

The average processing time for applications has, in fact, increased every month since the adult disability payment was launched, from 45 working days in September 2022 to 96 working days in April 2023. The Scottish Government promised a fair and more compassionate social security system in Scotland, but people in Scotland are now having to wait even longer than people in the rest of the UK, which I am sure was not the intention. Disabled Scots need that support during a cost of living crisis, so what specifically will the cabinet secretary do to address those delays and deliver the working social security system that we need as a matter of urgency?

As I said in my initial answer to Jackie Baillie, there are a number of differences between what happens with the DWP system and what happens with Social Security Scotland. The most obvious one is the collection of supporting information, which the agency does on behalf of the client. That is very different from what happens in the DWP and it necessarily takes more time to do.

I reassure Jackie Baillie on the issue. Every aspect is being looked at, all the way from the application form, through the information that goes along with the form to how the decisions are made. We are looking at every part of that process seriously. I will give just some examples of that. There are a number of ways in which we have changed how calls are handled in the agency, staff have been redeployed in a different way, and there have already been changes to application forms, particularly in relation to supporting information.

I say to all members in the chamber that, if they have constituency issues or lessons that can be learned, the Government and the agency stand ready to learn in relation to what is still a new system that we are developing. We are determined to do better than we are doing at the moment on processing times.

Presiding Officer, the Conservative members also want to pay our respects to Winnie Ewing and associate ourselves with the comments that you made about her. I had the privilege of meeting her on a few occasions. She was a formidable woman but also sought to encourage everyone who wanted to get involved in public life. Our thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time.

I say to the cabinet secretary that people are experiencing unacceptable delays not just on ADP. The average processing time for funeral support payment was 39 days in March this year. That means that many families are having to wait well over five weeks before they can even start to organise a funeral. Will the cabinet secretary tell members why those delays are happening? Will she commit to investigating ways in which that can be fixed and report back to the Parliament?

I thank Jeremy Balfour for that important question on funeral support payment. With all aspects of Social Security Scotland’s work, there is a great deal of focus on processing times. On funeral support payment, some of the work cannot be completed until the agency has all the information from a client to allow it to process a claim. However, if I can receive further information from Jeremy Balfour in writing, I am more than happy to consider any specific issues—or, with a constituent’s permission, specific cases—to see whether more can be done to learn lessons and speed things up where that is at all possible.

I echo others’ comments about Winnie Ewing. She was certainly a towering figure. She made quite a mark on Scottish politics and I understand why people feel so emotional about her passing. The Liberal Democrats pass on our sympathies to those people who feel this great loss.

One of my constituents has been waiting since last October. He has a degenerative spine condition and his mobility is declining. Even though his complaint was upheld, he has been allocated only the basic rate for mobility, so he has now asked for a redetermination and the wait is even longer because of that.

The trouble is that expectations were incredibly high after the Government promised so much from the new social security system. In addition to the changes that the cabinet secretary outlined, how will she restore confidence among people who are applying to the system, so that they believe that it is worth it and that they will get their benefits on time?

I thank Willie Rennie for that question and the discussions that I have had with him previously on particular issues.

Confidence in the system is important. I was up in Dundee, at the Social Security Scotland offices, to talk to staff and clients who had applied for and received the Scottish child payment and child and adult disability payments. They made it clear to me that, as has been shown in the client surveys that the agency has produced recently, there is still a high degree of confidence in the service that is being provided. People feel that they are believed, trusted and treated with dignity, fairness and respect. That is important. However, we know that there is much to do on the processing times, and I hope that I have given members some reassurance on that.

As I said, a small number of decisions are going to a redetermination. That is a necessary part of the system, and we will, of course, endeavour to ensure that everything is done in the agency to make that process as smooth as possible for people, too.

Question 2 was not lodged.

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United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill. (S6O-02410)

I will provide an update to Parliament on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill before the summer recess, which I am confident will provide stakeholders with sufficient reassurance about progress, the reasons for the time that it has taken to bring the bill back to Parliament, how we propose to amend the bill and our continued commitment to incorporation.

In January, the cabinet secretary said that the Government remains absolutely committed to incorporating the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Scots law as far as it is possible within devolved competence. However, instead of making that a priority, the Scottish National Party Government has chosen to air its constitutional grievances by embarking on a costly legal battle with the United Kingdom Government to defend its flawed Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. Why has this Government chosen to prioritise the GRR bill over the UNCRC bill, and when can the Parliament expect to see a draft of the updated UNCRC bill?

Well, if Mr Burnett was not simply reading a pre-prepared second question and had listened to what I said, he would know that he will get more information next week.

I know that we have genuine differences on gender recognition, but the first question was about the incorporation of children’s rights. Perhaps we could just rise above having a dig about gender recognition and recognise the sheer difficulty that we, as a Parliament, have, in that we literally have to pick out supporting children’s rights because of the devolution set-up; unfortunately, that takes time.

I am very sorry that the member conflates those two issues. They are entirely different and separate, and the Government will report back to Parliament on the issue of the UNCRC bill next week.

I thank the cabinet secretary for her response, and I look forward to the statement next week.

Is the Scottish Government confident that its guidance on “Decision-making: children and young people’s participation”, which was updated on 20 June, has, in particular regarding the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child’s general comment 12 on the involvement of young people, manifested itself in the Government’s outreach work on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child so far?

I hope to be able to say slightly more on that next week, if the member will forgive me, when—with the Parliament’s permission—I will bring forward a statement on it. The member raises an important point about how we continue to involve children and young people in the issues. As I said, if the member will forgive me, I will say more on that next week.

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Refugees from Ukraine (Supersponsor Scheme)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on whether it plans to resume the supersponsor scheme for Ukrainian refugees. (S6O-02411)

Since the war against Ukraine began, more than 24,700 people sponsored by an individual or by the Scottish Government have arrived in the United Kingdom. The decision to pause the scheme was difficult—a surge in applications, combined with pressure on short-term accommodation, meant that it was needed to ensure that we could continue to welcome those already with a visa. A review of that decision against an agreed set of criteria is under way, and Parliament will be updated in due course.

In the meantime, people can apply for a visa with an individual sponsor.

The Scottish Government seems to have overstretched its capacity and resources with the supersponsor scheme for Ukrainian refugees, leaving many in a perilous position, unsure of where they will live and when the Government’s short-term housing may run out for them. What measures, if any, has the cabinet secretary taken to ensure that every sponsored refugee who is taken in by the Scottish Government will be given long-term housing options as soon as the short-term housing option contracts end, given that the scheme was paused in July last year as a result of a lack of availability of housing?

I thank the member for the question, but I caution against suggesting that people are in “perilous” positions. The people we are speaking about have come to Scotland under circumstances that we cannot even begin to imagine. That is why it is very important that there is a reassurance that the short-term welcome accommodation is there.

Of course, there is a great deal of work going on around long-term accommodation with the private rented sector and with councils, and a number of councils have taken up the opportunity of using the Scottish Government funding to bring back void and other accommodation back into use for our Ukrainian guests. I would be more than happy to provide further information to the member on that if she wishes.

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Refugees from Ukraine (MS Victoria)

To ask the Scottish Government, regarding any implications for refugees from Ukraine, whether it will provide an update on the disembarkation of the MS Victoria, prior to the ship’s planned departure from the port of Leith on 11 July 2023. (S6O-02412)

There are matching teams on board the MS Victoria supporting all guests to move on to suitable alternative accommodation before the contract ends on July 11. The teams work closely with guests to encourage them to consider a range of housing options including social housing, private rented sector properties, hosted accommodation or alternative welcome accommodation including hotels.

We remain on course to safely disembark the ship ahead of the end of the contract, with the majority of guests who were resident now having already departed or having plans to disembark in the coming weeks.

I pay tribute to all those involved in that operation and appreciate and welcome the work that is under way by matching teams on board the MS Victoria to provide assistance and to minimise the inevitable disruption by helping guests to transition successfully to new accommodation through a trauma-informed and person-centred approach, as the cabinet secretary has emphasised.

I would be grateful if the cabinet secretary could also provide an update on on-going discussion between the Scottish Government and the private rented sector on helping to remove any remaining barriers to access to suitable accommodation for my constituents, especially regarding the cost of deposits for secure tenancies.

I thank Ben Macpherson for that question and pay tribute to the work that he and Deidre Brock MP have done to support their newest constituents while they have been in Leith.

In addition to providing £1.72 million in grant funding to bring 100 properties in the city back into use, we are working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and local authorities to consider whether we can bolster existing local authority support packages that help people with the cost of deposits and other barriers to accessing private rented properties. Officials and the Minister for Housing have also engaged directly with letting agents, landlords and tenant reference agencies to understand and overcome some of the non-monetary barriers to accessing private rental properties and to ensure that displaced people from Ukraine are able to access information about private tenancies.

If Mr Macpherson has further constituency work, I would be more than happy to work with him, as we have done in the past, alongside my colleague the Minister for Housing.

I associate myself with the words of Ben Macpherson and also take the opportunity to thank those who work in our schools in Edinburgh who have offered a very warm and supportive learning environment to those young people while they have been being educated here in Edinburgh. My question is on maintaining connections between those young people. We know that many of them will now be moving to different parts of the country, but their support network is here in Edinburgh. What support will be provided to ensure that they can continue to keep those relationships going in the future?

I associate myself very much with the remarks that Miles Briggs has made about the warm welcome that has been given within our schools—particularly, but not only, in Edinburgh—to our youngest Ukrainian guests. It is very important that councils are working together on that. The City of Edinburgh Council is not the only one that has been on board the ship; many others have, as well, and the councils in Edinburgh and elsewhere are working exceptionally closely to make sure that we do everything that we can in public agencies and the third sector to maintain connections and make the transition from MS Victoria to other accommodation as seamless and easy for people as possible.

On Monday, at the cross-party group on mental health, of which I am a co-convener, we heard a presentation from Edinburgh-based charity Feniks on the mental health and integration needs of Ukrainian refugees settling here. The findings from those who responded to its survey suggest that more support is required for refugees in navigating the system and accessing services such as mental health and children’s services. What additional measures can be provided to those who have sought sanctuary in Scotland to ensure that they get all the support that they need, and what can be done to ensure that the support is trauma informed?

Again, that is another very important issue. The fact is that this is not just about housing or, indeed, schooling but about ensuring that we wrap around as much support as possible for Ukrainians as they come to Scotland, for however long that may be.

Scottish Government officials, councils and other public agencies are working closely on the issues around support, whether in the health service or in wider services. If the cross-party group has particular concerns, I would be more than happy to receive further feedback from it, as Emma Roddick and I would be interested to see what we can learn from it.

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Social Security Scotland (Support)

To ask the Scottish Government what support is being provided to Social Security Scotland, in light of the continued transfer of cases from the Department for Work and Pensions and increase in applications. (S6O-02413)

We are working closely with Social Security Scotland and the DWP to safeguard the transition of client awards to the agency, which is a joint delivery programme. We are prioritising the safe and secure transfer of client data.

We are closely monitoring the number of applications for disability benefits against our forecasts and exploring a range of ways to improve our application processes, including taking a comprehensive look at every step in the journey, from people applying for a disability benefit to getting paid.

Good progress is being made on the transfer of awards from the DWP.

Several constituents have contacted me, citing delays to their payments. One constituent advised that they had waited more than four months for their paperwork to process and a decision to be made, during which time they were supporting an ill family member residing in the same household and had to travel to hospital appointments with very little income.

What support can the Scottish Government provide to Social Security Scotland to ensure that it continues to maintain a person-centred approach while implementing its first-come-first-served case management system?

As I mentioned to members in previous answers, a great deal of work is going on in Social Security Scotland and the social security directorate in the Scottish Government to ensure that action is being taken at every step of the journey to see what can be done to speed up processing times. I reassure members that progress is being made. More decisions are now made per week than have been made in the past, so we are seeing improvements.

I go back to the fact that the agency collates the supporting information, which is very different from what happened under the DWP, where the client had that responsibility. Both the Government and the agency are carefully considering what more can be done to speed up the process of receiving the supporting information and of the decision then being made.

If Michelle Thomson would like me to look into particular constituent cases, I would be more than happy to do so.

We know that the Government has spent almost £280 million on an information technology system for the agency, with no end in sight, and that significant challenges exist for people to get a response on the phone or online. What action is being taken immediately to ensure that people can get through and get an answer on those issues?

That IT system is the one that delivers the Scottish child payment, so there is one end that we already have well in our sights, which is providing support directly to children and families across the country.

Now that I have made that point, I will say that there is an issue around telephony, which is why the agency has considered and will continue to consider what more can be done to improve the call waiting times. Improvements have taken place in that area because of some of the steps that the agency has already taken. Again, I am more than happy to share further detail of those improvements with the member in due course, should he wish to see them.

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Child Poverty

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the level of child poverty in Scotland. (S6O-02414)

As our progress report, which was published last week, shows, our focus on tackling child poverty is unequivocal and making a significant difference. However, still too many children live in poverty in Scotland.

Economic modelling that was published last week estimates that 90,000 fewer children will live in relative and absolute poverty this year due to Scottish Government policies, with poverty levels at 9 percentage points lower than they would otherwise have been—that decrease includes the lifting of 50,000 children out of poverty through the Scottish child payment.

We are, however, doing that with one hand tied behind our back, given the United Kingdom Government’s decade of austerity, its mishandling of the economy, and a hard Brexit, which is why we will continue to argue for full powers to tackle poverty to be in the hands of this Parliament.

The cabinet secretary is aware of the shocking statistics—she just mentioned them—that show that a third of children in Glasgow are living in poverty and that, in the neighbouring local authority of South Lanarkshire, a quarter of children live in poverty. I agree whole-heartedly that cruel Tory policies such as the two-child cap should be scrapped, but the Scottish Government could and can do more here to eradicate poverty.

One way in which it could do that is through funding local authorities to enable them to continue their summer holiday food programmes, which provide targeted support for families that are in need and ensure that children get at least one hot meal a day. The Government has provided no clarity on the funding that will be available for local authorities to deliver those programmes, and the councils in both Glasgow and South Lanarkshire are crying out for clarity. When will the Government confirm the funding, because schools in Glasgow close for the summer tomorrow and South Lanarkshire schools finish on Tuesday? Thousands of children look set to lose out on that crucial provision simply because of the Government’s indecision.

I will be happy to provide Paul Sweeney with further information about the refocusing of the funds for that issue. I gently say to him that I am really glad that he thinks that some UK welfare policies should be scrapped or changed; it is just a shame that UK Labour does not agree. When there is no change happening at that level among the Scottish Conservatives and their masters down south or in UK Labour, it is deeply disappointing that, once again, we have members coming to the chamber expecting the Scottish Government to mitigate the worst of Tory and, apparently, now Labour welfare policies.

Analysis shows that 90,000 fewer children will live in poverty as a direct result of the actions and decisions that the Scottish Government is taking with its limited powers through the Scottish child payment and mitigating cruel Tory policies such as the bedroom tax and benefit cap. However, as the cabinet secretary has mentioned, we are acting with one hand tied behind our back. Will the cabinet secretary remind members what the impact would be on child poverty levels in Scotland if key UK welfare reforms were reversed?

The UK Government’s welfare reforms have been hugely damaging to people in Scotland and right across the UK. They are driving people into poverty, which is a political choice that the UK Government has made. The reforms mean that some Scottish Government policies simply mitigate the impact of UK Government cuts. Scottish Government analysis that was published last year showed that reversing key UK Government welfare reforms since 2015 would bring an estimated 70,000 people, including 30,000 children, out of poverty in Scotland in 2023-24. We have repeatedly asked the UK Government to reverse the cuts, which are inflicting damage on households right across the country.

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Food Banks

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its plan, “Cash-First: Towards Ending the Need for Food Banks in Scotland”. (S6O-02415)

Earlier this month, Scotland became the first nation in the United Kingdom to publish a plan to work towards ending the need for food banks. It includes a new £1.8 million programme to improve urgent access to cash in a crisis. As the Trussell Trust notes, the efforts of the Scottish Government to tackle poverty, including through the Scottish child payment, will help to raise incomes so that fewer people need to turn to emergency food parcels.

Data from the Trussell Trust indicates that the Scottish child payment has reduced the demand for emergency food bank use. At the same time, we know that aspects of the UK Government welfare system such as sanctions and a five-week wait for universal credit have caused an increase in demand for food banks. Does the cabinet secretary agree that there is a limit to what we can achieve in Scotland while we are under Westminster’s control?

David Torrance is quite right to point out the limitations that we have within our devolved powers and fixed budget. The Trussell Trust is right to note that the efforts of the Scottish Government to tackle poverty and, in particular, child poverty through the Scottish child payment will help to raise families’ incomes. It is a shame that the UK Government does not share our determination to tackle child poverty and lift children out of poverty so that they can reach their full potential.