Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
We move to consideration of stage 3 of the bill in a meeting of the full Parliament. The item of business is motion S1M-655, in the name of Jim Wallace, which seeks the Parliament's agreement that the bill be passed. The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
The minister will no doubt be pleased to hear that this party has not had a change of heart since last week, and that we remain supportive of the terms of the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. The fact that no amendments have been lodged is an indication of the consensus that exists in the Parliament on the inclusion of a question on religion in the census. We commend the Executive for producing this bill with the minimum of delay, and in that spirit we will not prolong proceedings unnecessarily.
The importance of census data should not be underestimated. The census provides detailed information on a range of topics, down to the level of local areas—information that is not directly comparable throughout the whole of Scotland. There is no substitute for that information when it comes to informing local and national policy making.
Because of the 10-year time scale, needs will change and some data will become more or less relevant. We have seen a reflection of that in the fact that there have been several adjustments that will feature in the census of 2001. Indeed, in earlier debates strong arguments were put forward for even more additions to the census.
The debate on the contents of the 2001 census marked an important development in the role of committees in this decision-making process. As a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee, I welcome the fact that the minister was open to persuasion in the matter of questions on religion and ethnicity.
The minister has indicated that any questions that have been omitted from the census, including a question on the Scots language and language that is spoken in the home, will feature in the expanded household survey. We look forward to the implementation of that survey, and trust that individuals and organisations who have an interest or involvement in those matters will have an opportunity to comment on the proposed format and wording of those new questions.
In the meantime, consultation continues on the options for questions on religion and ethnicity. The minister will be aware that comments have been received from several agencies, although I suspect that it may not be possible to satisfy everyone's demands.
In the future, emerging policy areas such as sustainable development and community planning might also require information to be collected from the census. The Scottish Parliament itself may generate additional, as yet unforeseen, demands for new data, of which the census might be the most convenient, efficient and reliable source. I trust that the minister will be sympathetic to those new information requirements.
I reiterate that it is more important to get the census right, and for it to reflect the needs of its users, than to get caught up in cost implications or other issues. In the meantime, I support the bill that is before us.
I apologise to the minister. I should have asked you to move the motion for debate at stage 3 first. I ask you to do so now, and you can reply to the comments that are made by others at the end.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees that the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill be passed.—[Angus MacKay.]
I thank the minister for introducing this stage of the bill in Parliament. I reiterate the support for it from this side of the chamber. Particularly, we welcome the fact that people can refuse to answer the question on religious faith without facing the penalty that is incurred by those who refuse to answer other questions. I formally offer our support for the motion.
I formally record the support of the Liberal Democrats for this bill.
You are certainly getting through the speeches today, Presiding Officer. I have prepared a four-hour speech on the history of the census, from the earliest times. [Laughter.] However, as I know that Angus MacKay is already familiar with such matters, I shall be as brief as possible. I am immensely relieved to see so many Labour members present, although there are few SNP members. The bracing seaside air of Ayr will be doing them a great deal of good this afternoon.
As I must be the only member to speak in this debate who has not yet spoken on the census as it has worked its way through the Parliament, I thought that I should have my turn. In reading the stage 1 debate, I was struck by a remark that Tricia Marwick quoted from John Rickman:
"intimate knowledge of any country must form the rational basis of legislation."—[Official Report, 16 February 2000; Vol 4, c 1093.]
As the requirements of government have extended, so has the amount of information that is required. I want to put in a personal plea. When this matter returns to the chamber in 10 years' time, I would like us to consider widening our information base. The Deputy Minister for Communities will undoubtedly be in charge of the Labour party by that time, so she will be able to take the matter forward. By making that prediction, I have just finished her career.
In Scotland there is a very honourable tradition of seeing further than basic figures. Those who created the statistical accounts of Scotland—particularly the parish ministers who were charged with that responsibility at the end of the 18th century—realised that more was required than simply to count the heads of the people in each parish if they were to get a portrait of the country and its needs. We need a proactive way of seeing our nation and what it can do as well as a reactive way. The census is a reactive way of getting information, just by counting heads.
We are glad that the census has been extended to take in a question on religion. It is regrettable that a question on the Scots language is not included. If there had been wider consultation in this Parliament—and I understand that the matter was pressing because the census has to take place every 10 years—it would have been possible to consider including other information and fleshing out the portrait of the country that we see and know. That can be done by statistical account and by the publication of economic information. I regret that the Executive is reducing the publication of economic information at this time, rather than expanding it.
Many of us would like there to be a period of discussion and consultation on the information that we have about the economic, social and personal life of the people who live in Scotland, so that we can plan for the future. Planning on the basis of the census figures alone, which was originally a measure of taxation, will not be enough. As the Executive moves forward, it may want to consider the broader question of the information that we gather in Scotland, so that we can inform the public polity of Scotland even better. I am absolutely certain that an SNP Administration will pick that up after 2003. Mr Lewis Macdonald is laughing. He should be shaking in his boots.
I support the motion.
Mr MacKay, would you like to comment on those observations?
I am sure that you and the chamber will be very relieved to know that I do not propose to make a speech anything like the length of Mike Russell's. I do not propose to prolong the debate, because I think that we have covered fully the issues that needed to be discussed.
I want simply to reiterate that the Executive has listened carefully to the views that have been voiced throughout in favour of the inclusion of a question on religion in the census. The bill is necessary to allow a voluntary question on religion to be asked in future censuses. The question will provide important benchmark information in connection with social inclusion policies that are designed to prevent discrimination against particular religious groups. A question or questions on religion will also provide information that will help to improve and shape services to minority religious groups.
Once the bill has been approved and has received royal assent, we will lay a draft census amendment order to provide for the inclusion in the 2001 census of questions on religion. I can assure Mr Russell that the Labour Administration in 2010 will take on board the points that he has made today.
That brings the debate to a close.
I seek the Parliament's permission to move a motion without notice regarding decision time.
Do we agree to take a motion without notice?
Members indicated agreement.
Motion moved,
That decision time be five minutes hence.—[Mr McCabe.]
The proposal is that decision time should be at four minutes past 3 o'clock. [Members: "No."] I beg your pardon—I cannot count. The proposal is that decision time should be at five minutes to 3 o'clock. Is that agreed?
Motion agreed to.
The debate on motion S1M-614, in the name of Dr Elaine Murray, on cashpoint services, will immediately follow decision time.
Meeting adjourned.
On resuming—