The next item of business is stage 3 of the Tribunals (Scotland) Bill. Members should have copies of the bill as amended at stage 2, the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. The division bell will sound and proceedings will be suspended for five minutes for the first division of the afternoon, the period of voting for which will be 30 seconds. Thereafter, I will allow a voting period of one minute for the first division after a debate. Members who wish to speak in the debate on any group of amendments should press their request-to-speak buttons as soon as possible after the group is called.
After section 11A
We start with group 1. Amendment 24, in the name of Dr Elaine Murray, is the only amendment in the group.
At stage 2, both the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs and I lodged amendments to address concerns that witnesses had expressed that the bill did not—unlike the equivalent United Kingdom legislation—contain a definition of “tribunal”. The minister’s amendment was successful. However, committee members expressed sympathy for the policy direction of one of the paragraphs in one of my amendments, which would have required the Lord President to consider and to develop innovative methods of resolving disputes. At the time, Justice Committee members objected to how it was expressed, although it replicated the wording in section 2(3)(d) of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
Nevertheless, I have tried to take on board both the positive views of committee members regarding dispute resolution and their concerns that the previous wording was too woolly, so I offer instead a new section on alternative dispute resolution to be inserted in section 11A.
Amendment 24 would require the Lord President, in his or her capacity as head of the Scottish tribunals, to
“promote alternative methods of resolving disputes”—
for example, negotiation, mediation, adjudication or arbitration—that would be suitable for the type of case that is under consideration.
I move amendment 24, and offer it to the Parliament for consideration.
I support amendment 24. I commend Elaine Murray for the rewording, which seems to be entirely sensible and reasonable.
Elaine Murray’s amendment 24 would place a duty on the Lord President to promote alternative dispute resolution in cases that are brought before the Scottish tribunals, to the extent that the Lord President would believe that that would be appropriate.
There are a couple of difficulties with amendment 24. It has been lodged at stage 3, which has not provided enough time to seek the Lord President’s views on it; I do not think that it would be appropriate to place a duty on the Lord President without first having had the opportunity to discuss it with him.
The Scottish Government has supported and encouraged the use of alternative methods of dispute resolution in appropriate cases. The Government agrees that alternative dispute resolution is a valuable component of the administrative justice landscape, but it is for the founding legislation for each tribunal jurisdiction to provide for that.
Different ADR methods are already used by some tribunals that will transfer into the new structure. For example, the Private Rented Housing Panel uses mediation in some disputes, as does the Additional Support Needs Tribunal for Scotland. In valuation appeals, negotiation is provided for. Members might also be interested to know that the Homeowner Housing Panel has recently embarked on a mediation pilot project, which will be undertaken over the next 12 months. That will gauge whether mediation is appropriate in some property factor or land maintenance cases.
In some cases, ADR is not appropriate. The Mental Health Tribunal for Scotland is one instance of that, because it deals with persons’ liberty. It would be wrong to use ADR in those circumstances.
Amendment 24 is unnecessary, so I ask Elaine Murray to withdraw it.
I note what the minister said about founding legislation, which is the mechanism by which new tribunals are set up. I understand that a new tribunal process is proposed in the Housing (Scotland) Bill, which is before the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee. Has the requirement to consider alternative methods been built in to that bill? If we have an environment tribunal—which I know the Minister for Environment and Climate Change is considering—will we ensure that such a requirement is in the legislation to establish that? If ministers assure me that the requirement will be included in all future legislation, I will be happy to withdraw amendment 24.
Unusually, I call the minister to respond.
I cannot answer for the Minister for Housing and Welfare on the Housing (Scotland) Bill. However, in some support of Elaine Murray’s position, I add that section 2 of the Scottish Civil Justice Council and Criminal Legal Assistance Act 2013 provides for the Scottish Civil Justice Council to have regard to specific principles in carrying out its functions. One of those principles is that
“methods of resolving disputes which do not involve the courts should, where appropriate, be promoted.”
Because that council will in the future be responsible for tribunal rules, that provides adequately for promotion of ADR in tribunals in the way that Elaine Murray wishes.
I am content to withdraw amendment 24.
Amendment 24, by agreement, withdrawn.
Section 26—Listed tribunals
We move to group 2. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2, 3 and 8.
At stage 2, Elaine Murray lodged an amendment to include in the bill a definition of “tribunal”. I explained then that section 26 of the bill describes a tribunal for the purposes of the bill. However, having reflected on the stage 2 discussions, I have lodged amendments 1 to 3, which will make clearer the description that section 26 provides. Amendment 8 is consequential on the new description that will be in section 26(4), which is more inclusive than the specification in paragraph 13(3) of schedule 1. The amendments will make a technical adjustment to make the provisions fit better.
I move amendment 1.
I am pleased that our stage 2 discussions affected the minister, and I welcome the amendments.
Amendment 1 agreed to.
Amendments 2 and 3 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Section 61A—Offences in relation to proceedings
We move to group 3. Amendment 4, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.
At stage 2, we lodged an amendment that provided that the Scottish ministers could make regulations on offences in proceedings that are before the Scottish tribunals. However, the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee has previously taken the view that it is inappropriate for Parliament to confer on ministers a power to create offences and penalties in regulations without specifying a limit on the penalties that can be imposed. The committee takes the view that setting of maximum penalties is a matter for Parliament and should not be delegated. I have reflected on the committee’s view and have lodged amendment 4 to make provision for setting of the maximum penalties that may be provided for in regulations.
I move amendment 4.
14:30
I fully accept the need to ensure that statements and evidence that are given in tribunals are accurate, but I have concerns that creating a raft of new offences with severe penalties could harm the informal nature of some tribunals. Therefore, I seek an assurance from the minister that amendment 4 will not pave the way to excessive penalties, and that the power will be used only when it is deemed to be absolutely necessary to do so.
I cannot predict the future, of course, but I think that I am fairly safe in saying that the power is likely to be used very rarely. It is simply to ensure that, should circumstances arise, it can be used.
Amendment 4 agreed to.
Section 62—Tribunal Rules
We move to group 4. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 6, 19, 20 and 25.
Amendment 5 clarifies that, as well as making provisions that regulate the practice and procedure to be followed in proceedings, tribunals’ rules may contain “provision of other sorts” connected to the Scottish tribunals, but not strictly to do with procedure or proceedings. In particular, provision can be made that is connected to the exercise of functions by a tribunal.
The bill will already empower tribunals’ rules to deal with matters of that sort in sections 27(5), 58, 63(A1) and 63(1). For example, section 58 allows tribunals’ rules to make provision concerning the manner in which a decision can be enforced. Amendment 5 makes it clear that the general rule-making power also includes the ability to make rules of that kind. Rules will not be able to override or conflict with any substantive provision that is made by the bill, or to deal with decision making by the tribunal.
Amendment 19 will amend schedule 9 so that the terms of section 62 as amended are reflected in the provisions that relate to the period before the Scottish Civil Justice Council takes over rule making for tribunals—that is, the transitional period.
Amendments 6 and 20 will make technical drafting adjustments.
Margaret Mitchell’s amendment 25 seeks to change the procedure for making regulations for tribunal rules from negative procedure to affirmative procedure. As explained at stage 2, the power for the Scottish ministers to continue to make rules is a transitional arrangement until the Scottish Civil Justice Council is ready to take over. The Scottish ministers currently make rules that are subject to negative procedure, so I do not think that the amendment is necessary.
The bill makes explicit provision in paragraph 4(3) of schedule 9 for when the Scottish ministers are making rules in the interim period. They will not make them in isolation without consulting the president of tribunals or
“such other persons as they consider appropriate.”
In practice, ministers will involve people with the appropriate jurisdictional expertise when they make or change rules. Those experts would be the same people who would sit on the specialist committees of the Scottish Civil Justice Council when it takes over responsibility. They are the jurisdictional experts.
I move amendment 5.
My amendment 25 would require the ministerial order-making power to be the subject of affirmative procedure rather than negative procedure. The bill will currently, by virtue of paragraph 4 of schedule 9, allow the Scottish ministers to draft procedural rules. The Scottish Government’s intention is that that will be an interim arrangement, as the minister outlined, before the newly created Scottish Civil Justice Council has the capacity to take over responsibility for those rules. However, the council will be fully occupied drafting new civil court procedural rules and—notwithstanding what the minster said about consultation—that is likely to be the case for the foreseeable future.
I accept that the Government’s intention is to ensure that rules are drafted as soon as possible and I acknowledge that ministers already have a limited role in drafting tribunal rules, but as the Faculty of Advocates pointed out, that arrangement is undesirable on constitutional grounds, because the rule-making power allows ministers, who can themselves be subject to tribunal consideration, to draft the rules.
The Government accepts that point, which is why the Scottish Civil Justice Council will take on that role and there is reference to ministers’ consultation of its members. However, in the meantime, we need full transparency. The bill will give ministers considerable power to shape independent tribunals and to draft all the rules for the new upper tribunal for proceedings—proceedings to which they may find themselves subject.
Furthermore, if amendment 19 is passed, that will make amendment 25 all the more pertinent because that would extend the scope of the ministerial order-making power. In those circumstances, ideally the Government would set up an interim independent body to draft procedural rules. However, given the resources that would be required to do that, it is clear that it will not happen. I hope that the Government will, notwithstanding the minister’s opening remarks, reconsider and agree to the rules being subject to affirmative procedure, in particular because that would not be overly onerous and would—crucially—give Parliament a greater role in scrutinising the new rules while introducing a limited but desirable set of checks and balances.
On the face of it, amendment 25 looks attractive because it appears to suggest that there ought to be more scrutiny of the rules by Parliament. However, given that the Government produces such rules using negative procedure, and that we are talking only about an interim arrangement until the SCJC is up and running and is able to draft such rules itself, I do not see any point in changing the procedure for a short time.
Were we to become aware of tribunal rules that were offensive in some way, we have the opportunity under negative procedure to annul them, in any case. Therefore, as long as we are vigilant to the possibility of rules being drafted in such a way that Parliament would not agree to them, we can take action.
I make it very clear to Parliament that the process that we are intending to continue through the transitional period is precisely the process that we work under now, that the previous coalition Government here worked under, and which previous United Kingdom Governments worked under prior to 1999. Therefore, the bill reflects nothing other than the practice that has been in place for a great number of years. Had a serious question been raised about that practice, we might have heard more about it. I ask Parliament to reject amendment 25.
Amendment 5 agreed to.
Section 68—Practice directions
Amendment 6 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Section 76—List of expressions
Group 5 is on minor drafting points. Amendment 7, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 9, 22 and 23.
I will be brief. The amendments in the group are minor drafting adjustments.
I move amendment 7.
Amendment 7 agreed to.
Schedule 1—Listed tribunals
Amendment 8 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Schedule 2—Transfer-in of members
Amendment 9 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Schedule 3—Appointment to First-tier Tribunal
Group 6 is on eligibility and process for appointment. Amendment 10, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 11 to 17 and 21.
Amendments 10 to 17 address an anomaly in the bill. Provision is made in schedules 3 and 5 for solicitors and barristers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who have previous experience to be eligible for appointment to the first-tier and upper tribunals, should ministers make regulations to that effect. No account has been taken of those who have current experience as solicitors or barristers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland: individuals with previous experience have been included, but those who have current experience have not.
The amendments in the group will address that anomaly by allowing people who have current experience to be eligible for appointment, should the Scottish ministers decide to make such regulations. The result will be a coherent set of powers that will allow the Scottish ministers to make lawyers who are qualified in England, Wales and Northern Ireland eligible for appointment in the future, should an appropriate jurisdiction require that.
Amendment 21 will make a minor change to the provision in paragraph 9A(1)(b) of schedule 9 to allow persons who exercise functions as a listed tribunal—such as parking adjudicators—to be chosen by the Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland when it is undertaking appointments, before all the functions of listed tribunals are transferred in to the Scottish tribunals. Currently, reference is made only to
“a member of any listed tribunal”.
That does not account for individuals who exercise functions as a listed tribunal.
I move amendment 10.
Amendment 10 agreed to.
Amendments 11 to 13 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Schedule 5—Appointment to Upper Tribunal
Amendments 14 to 17 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Schedule 7—Conditions of membership etc
We move to group 7. Amendment 18, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.
Amendment 18 will remove the disqualification provision in paragraph 11 of schedule 7 to the bill.
The bill creates a framework into which the functions of members of listed tribunals may be transferred. It is flexible enough to allow other or new jurisdictions to be added to schedule 1, which contains the list of tribunals. The functions of a new jurisdiction can also be transferred directly into the Scottish tribunals through the founding legislation. A tribunal, whether currently appearing as a listed tribunal in the bill or in a newly created jurisdiction, will continue to operate under its founding legislation once it is transferred in to the new structure.
All tribunals are unique and have different membership requirements; I do not want inadvertently to disqualify a category of membership. For example, there may in the future be jurisdictions that would not want to disqualify from becoming members civil servants who were sitting in a voluntary capacity. That would be a matter for the people in the policy teams that originated the legislation that set up that tribunal.
Founding legislation is the correct place for such provision. The bill contains other provisions that will ensure that only people who are suitable will be appointed as members of the Scottish tribunals. For example, the Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland will make recommendations to the Scottish ministers on suitable candidates for appointment. Recommendation for appointment can be made only on the basis of jurisdictionally specific criteria, which the Scottish ministers will set in regulations.
There are enough safeguards, whether in founding legislation or in the bill, to ensure that only those who are suitable to hold office in the Scottish tribunals will be appointed.
I move amendment 18.
Amendment 18 seeks to remove the automatic disqualification of tribunal members who go on to become elected politicians or civil servants. That provision was sensible; therefore, I remain to be convinced of the need to remove it at this late stage, especially because there are justifiable concerns that amendment 18 could result in, and encourage, political interference in tribunals.
On the example that the minister cites, a solution would be for civil servants to be allowed to sit as advisory members by alternative provision. Although it could be appropriate for civil servants to sit in such an advisory capacity, it is not appropriate for elected politicians to sit as full tribunal members. That would surely create a situation whereby section 3, which protects judicial independence, could be breached.
Therefore, amendment 18 is not an improvement to the bill. I support paragraph 11 of schedule 3.
14:45
Like Margaret Mitchell, I was slightly puzzled by this amendment when I first saw it, because it appears to remove the disqualification of people such as ourselves, MPs, MEPs and councillors from sitting on tribunals, and there will be many circumstances in which that would be completely inappropriate. However, I had assumed that it is because the provision might be duplicating other legislation. Perhaps the minister can clarify that she is telling us that the disqualifications already exist in founding legislation, so people such as ourselves could not sit on existing tribunals.
This is about is the difference between having a situation in which we—in the process of the bill—make a decision that will apply to all tribunals, even those that have not yet been brought into being, and a situation in which we agree that the decision-making process is better located in the policy side of the argument, when a proposal for a new tribunal is made.
I have nothing in my mind about how it might come about that it would be considered appropriate for certain people to be on or not on a tribunal, but my feeling is that it is better for us to deal with the matter on a case-by-case basis, when a tribunal is being considered, rather than now, when we are perhaps not in complete command of the facts with regard to particular subject areas. It is not really for us to make decisions on behalf of individual tribunals that have yet to be set up.
The question is, that amendment 18 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division. As it is the first vote of the afternoon, there will be a five-minute suspension.
14:44 Meeting suspended.
We move to the division on amendment 18.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Baxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
Against
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
The result of the division is: For 102, Against 13, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 18 agreed to.
Schedule 9—Transitional and consequential
Amendment 19 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham].
The question is, that amendment 19 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Baxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
Against
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
The result of the division is: For 102, Against 13, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 19 agreed to.
Amendment 20 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
Amendment 25 moved—[Margaret Mitchell].
The question is, that amendment 25 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Baxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 14, Against 101, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 25 disagreed to.
Amendments 21 to 23 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.
We move to group 8. Amendment 26, in the name of Dr Elaine Murray, is grouped with amendments 27 to 29.
Amendments 26, 27 and 28 replicate amendments that I lodged at stage 2 but did not move. They reflect concerns raised by Citizens Advice Scotland, which, as members will be aware, specialises in taking people through the tribunals process and is expert in doing so.
CAS is concerned that a gap has been left by the abolition of the Administrative Justice and Tribunals Council, with regard to the independent review of tribunals. Since 1957, there has been a clear and statutory link between the oversight of tribunals and the making of procedural rules, which has now been broken. The remit of the now-defunct AJTC included keeping under review the administrative justice system as a whole, with a view to making it accessible, fair and efficient.
Clearly, the bill deals only with tribunals; the administrative justice system as a whole is outwith its scope. My amendments therefore refer to the responsibilities of the Scottish Civil Justice Council with respect to tribunals only; they do not address in their entirety the concerns raised by CAS. However, we are about to consider the Courts Reform (Scotland) Bill, which may provide a mechanism for addressing concerns about the oversight of the administrative justice system as a whole.
Amendments 26, 27 and 28 would require the SCJC to keep under review matters relating to the administrative justice system within the jurisdiction of the Scottish tribunals, to provide advice and recommendations to the Lord President and to provide advice on matters when requested to do so by the Lord President.
When we discussed my similar amendments at stage 2, the minister advised that the bill already contains an amendment to the Scottish Civil Justice Council and Criminal Legal Assistance Act 2013 requiring the SCJC to establish a tribunals committee, which will draft tribunal procedural rules. She argued that the amendments that I had lodged at stage 2 would replicate work that was already under way.
Amendment 29 therefore aims to prevent duplication by linking those duties placed on the SCJC with the functions of that tribunals committee. The committee would exercise those functions in addition to those that are already contained in the amendment to the 2013 act.
The four amendments taken together would mean that oversight duty is not lost; it becomes a function of the SCJC, but one that is exercised by the tribunals committee.
I move amendment 26.
The amendments lodged by Elaine Murray still replicate what is already available on a wider scale. The amendments would give the Scottish Civil Justice Council the remit to oversee administrative justice within the Scottish tribunals system only, but the administrative justice system is wider than the jurisdiction of the Scottish tribunals; it covers all redress mechanisms for citizens to challenge or complain about a decision made by a public body, including courts and tribunals.
As I explained to the Justice Committee, where similar amendments were lodged by Elaine Murray at stage 2, I have set up a non-statutory interim committee—the Scottish tribunals and administrative justice advisory committee—to keep the administrative justice and tribunal landscape under review. That committee contains members with backgrounds in consumer advice, the law, independent advocacy and mediation. It will provide an independent perspective on administrative justice from outside the system.
I wrote to the convener of the Justice Committee on 19 February providing further information on the work of the advisory committee. Its work is well under way. It has developed a clear remit that will ensure what Elaine Murray is seeking to address with her amendments. I think that there is more value in co-ordinated scrutiny of the administrative justice system as a whole by an independent committee than in narrow oversight restricted to within the jurisdiction of the Scottish tribunals.
I informed the Justice Committee at stage 2 that the advisory committee will hold a stakeholder event on 1 April and publish its progress online. I know that Marieke Dwarshuis, the chair of the advisory committee, would welcome the opportunity to discuss its work with the Parliament. It probably would be better for Elaine Murray and members of the Justice Committee to hear first-hand about the advisory committee’s remit and work plan and I urge the Justice Committee to consider that offer.
I believe that Elaine Murray’s amendments are unnecessary and duplicate work by the Scottish tribunals and administrative justice advisory committee that is already under way. I invite Elaine Murray to withdraw, or not move, her amendments.
The minister said that the administrative justice system is wider than tribunals. I recognise that and the amendments are drafted to reflect the scope of the bill. Citizens Advice Scotland was slightly disappointed that they could not have a wider remit, but we cannot have that in the scope of the bill.
The minister referred to the non-statutory interim committee, which I am very interested to hear more about. I hope that I will be able to attend part of the stakeholder event on 1 April, because I would be very interested to learn more about the committee’s activities and remit. However, as the minister said, it is a non-statutory interim committee. It will not be there forever and it is non-statutory. Citizens Advice Scotland told us that it is concerned about the breaking of the statutory link with the oversight of administrative justice. I do not think that the interim committee totally addresses Citizens Advice Scotland’s concerns. Given CAS’s expertise—I am sure that it is highly valued by all members for its work on tribunals—I press amendment 26.
The question is, that amendment 26 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Baxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 55, Against 60, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 26 disagreed to.
Amendment 27 moved—[Elaine Murray].
The question is, that amendment 27 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Baxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 43, Against 73, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 27 disagreed to.
Amendment 28 moved—[Elaine Murray].
The question is, that amendment 28 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division.
For
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Baxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Dugdale, Kezia (Lothian) (Lab)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD)
Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green)
Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab)
McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)
McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)
Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)
Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con)
Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP)
Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Goldie, Annabel (West Scotland) (Con)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Mackay, Derek (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLeod, Aileen (South Scotland) (SNP)
McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP)
The result of the division is: For 43, Against 73, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 28 disagreed to.
Amendment 29 not moved.
That ends consideration of amendments.
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