Plenary, 03 Oct 2002

Meeting date: Thursday, October 3, 2002

Official Report 642KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

We move to First Minister's questions. I call John Swinney.

Come on, John. Release your potential. [Laughter.]

It is happening, and it will happen on 1 May 2003. [Interruption.]

Order. Let us settle down.

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Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues he intends to raise. (S1F-2151)

I have met the secretary of state on a number of occasions over the past week and we have had very interesting discussions on a number of issues.

I want to ask the First Minister about events surrounding his Government this week. First, Wendy Alexander, who was recently a Cabinet minister, admitted that the only big idea in Scottish politics in 96 years was independence in Europe. Secondly, we have had today's disclosure of the First Minister's spin manual to deceive the public on youth justice. Will the First Minister confirm that his commitment to have more facts and less spin—which is less than a year old—lies in tatters today?

It is interesting to note that independence in Europe is one of the few big ideas in Scottish politics in the past 100 years that has completely failed. That is a much more accurate reflection of the situation.

Since I became First Minister last November, I have taken an absolutely rigorous and consistent approach to the issue of government information and transparency of facts and statistics. Over that time, I have had to act on a number of issues to ensure that our information is more accurate; that we provide it in a more transparent way; and that we reduce additional comments around the edges and focus on the facts. That was the right approach for the confidence of the people of Scotland and the Parliament and to ensure that the Executive is focused on the key priorities, which as I have said before are jobs, transport, housing, education and crime.

I want to ask the First Minister about a specific point in his spin manual. He wants to use the launch of new standards as part of a

"pre-emptive handling of an Audit Scotland report"

that will say that the current youth justice system is

"too slow, inconsistent and lacking in clear aims".

In judging that he needs such a pre-emptive strike, the First Minister has either had sight of an Audit Scotland report three months ahead of publication, which is a matter of enormous public concern, or else knows what every reasonable person knows—that the youth justice system is in crisis. Which one is it?

I hope that an Audit Scotland report would make such comments about the youth justice system. It is too slow; it does not have clear aims; and it requires radical action. That is exactly why we published a 10-point action plan in June, which will make changes to transform the system into one that meets Scottish society's objectives in tackling the particular issue of young teenagers between 14 and 18 that the current system does not tackle well enough.

If Mr Swinney had listened to any of the answers that he has received in the chamber since January, he would have heard me—not some junior official in some department who was drafting a note for a minister—saying those things over and over again. I will say them again today, and will say them when the Audit Scotland report is published, whatever its conclusions might be. In the meantime, we will take action. Youth court pilots are on the way; specialist children's hearings pilots are on the way; an increase in secure accommodation is on the way; national standards for the children's hearings system are on the way; and a police visibility campaign is on the way. All those measures will make a difference in Scotland, and they are much better than the Scottish National Party's spinning.

We can always tell: the long answers are the defensive ones. The First Minister's answer beautifully ignores the fact that he has been responsible for youth justice not only as First Minister, but as the Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs. He has delivered no progress. He has told us in the chamber that the youth justice system has problems that need to be tackled. Is not the problem with the youth justice system the cynicism and deceit that lie at the heart of the Government?

I regard the last comment as offensive and not worthy of a response.

The issue is the important one of youth crime and fear of youth crime throughout Scotland. To tackle that issue, we need solutions not slogans. We need real solutions. That means youth courts for older teenagers and specialist children's hearings to get younger offenders—who currently go back out on to the street because the system cannot cope with them—through the system and dealt with properly. It means increasing the number of secure accommodation places to ensure not only that we have enough places for those who need them but that we have the right places, so that boys and girls are separate, and ensuring that offenders are rehabilitated and come back out as better people.

All those changes are important. The pace of change in youth justice in the past few months has been quicker than on any other item that has ever been on the Scottish Parliament's agenda and there will continue to be quick movement, because we treat the matter as an absolute priority for the people of Scotland.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S1F-2140)

The Scottish Cabinet always discusses issues that matter to the people of Scotland. The next meeting will be no different, as we will discuss education and training, rural development and health.

I am delighted to hear that subject list for the Cabinet meeting. Will the First Minister and his Cabinet follow the lead of the Prime Minister by setting up foundation hospitals, which will have the freedom to make decisions on how best to meet patients' needs, within the national health service in Scotland, or by allowing successful schools to take over failing schools in the neighbourhood as a way of raising educational standards for all? Will those ideas be on the agenda?

The ideas on the agenda in Scotland that are making a real difference, particularly in education and health, are those that are appropriate for the Scottish systems. The objectives, which the Prime Minister and I share, are to ensure that there is choice, excellence and quality in public services and to back up the programme of investment with a programme of reform. We share the objectives and the end result, but the processes in Scotland and in England are, quite rightly, different. There are different education systems and health structures in Scotland and England. We are a smaller country. We can do it even better. We can be bold and radical and we can ensure that we make a difference.

Many people will be surprised to hear the answer about doing it better. What we get from the First Minister is the mantra of so-called Scottish solutions to Scottish problems. It is really all about no answers to real problems.

I am surprised that the First Minister apparently has nothing to learn from our neighbours, given that his party has been an ideas-free zone for the best part of 100 years. When a recent survey has established that, despite all the First Minister's boasts, it takes Scottish patients much longer than patients in England to get an appointment with their GP, are we doing it better? Is not it about time that the First Minister realised that the only way to achieve real improvements to our schools and hospitals in Scotland is to stop kowtowing to the public sector unions and to put in place reforms that will put pupils and patients first?

Let me give Mr McLetchie a good example of what I am talking about. This morning, I was at the Western general in Edinburgh, which is part of what, in Scotland, we call a managed clinical network. We could call the Western general a foundation hospital. We could call the various hospitals that it works with throughout Scotland foundation hospitals. The reality is that we want centres of excellence, each of which is linked to other centres of excellence through local primary care teams and hospital management throughout Scotland. The Western general is part of that; I discussed that with people there this morning. Its centre of managed excellence stretches from the Highlands to the Borders. As I saw this morning, that ensures that a patient from Kirkcaldy who needs urgent heart treatment can come with his consultant to the Western general in Edinburgh and be treated there this morning rather than have to wait for treatment in Fife.

That is what we need in the health service in Scotland. We are a small country with huge potential and we can manage our services better than a large country can. We will certainly not be able to do so if the SNP cuts our budgets by taking us out of the United Kingdom. [Interruption.] The rabble on the SNP benches should go to the health service for treatment.

There is a key point. We could call the hospitals foundation hospitals, but what we want is a centre of excellence in every hospital and health centre across Scotland. Scotland has managed excellence networks—the Tories can call them foundation networks if they like—that stretch from the Highlands to the Borders and which deliver treatment quickly. It is the patients who matter, not the names of the hospitals or their structure. That is why our solutions are starting to work.

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Scottish Media Group

To ask the First Minister whether he has met the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the Secretary of State for Scotland to discuss the sale of the Scottish Media Group. (S1F-2139)

Criteria will be set by the Competition Commission and the United Kingdom ministers to maintain competition. It will be for the commission and the UK ministers to satisfy themselves that any buyer of the SMG's publishing business satisfies those criteria. At the right time and if appropriate, I will make representations to UK ministers on the matter.

Does the First Minister accept the need for diversity of ownership in Scotland's national newspapers? What progress is being made at Government level with regard to that diversity both in Scotland and in the UK? Does the First Minister accept that it would not help to maintain such editorial diversity if the current owners of The Scotsman's stable bought The Herald's stable?

It would be wrong of me to speak of potential owners when we are nowhere near that stage yet. However, I believe strongly that many important issues are at stake, including editorial independence and diversity, which The Herald and a number of Scottish titles have given us for many years. It is not by accident that we have one of the highest levels of newspaper readership anywhere in the world. However, we have to ensure that we maintain, as far as is possible, the headquarters and business operations of the group in Scotland. I hope that the Scottish Executive can assist with that during the sale.

We live in a modern world and we have to ensure that we are part of the global economy and the UK economy—in my view, at least—but we also have to ensure that, where Scottish interests are at stake, we represent them forcefully. I will always do that as First Minister.

I declare an interest, in that I am a contributor to The Herald.

I associate myself with Tavish Scott's question. Given the vital cultural and democratic interest that relates to the ownership of newspapers and a diverse press, does the First Minister agree that it is not enough simply to talk about a referral to Westminster? Would he encourage an appropriate body in Scotland—for example, a Scottish Parliament committee—to inquire into the matter when appropriate and to come to conclusions on behalf of the people of Scotland so that the Scottish voice can be heard on this essential matter?

The committees of the Scottish Parliament have a perfect right and a responsibility to make their own decisions about what they inquire into, without advice from me. I believe strongly that the issues of editorial independence and diversity in the Scottish media are important. However, it is also important that the Scottish Parliament concentrate on using the powers that it has got to make the biggest difference in Scotland rather than spending all its time arguing about powers that we do not have.

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Leisure Facilities (Community Access)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Executive is doing to ensure adequate community access to sports and leisure facilities built through public-private partnership schemes. (S1F-2146)

We announced in the Scottish budget on 12 September that £1.15 billion would be spent using PPPs to build or modernise 300 schools across Scotland. That is the next stage in our new school building programme.

Schools have a key role to play in ensuring that all communities have reasonable access to sport and leisure facilities. Our Scottish schools standard PPP contract contains provisions that deliver that essential requirement.

Extra moneys and resources are welcome and necessary to target and combat social exclusion and to improve health. However, the First Minister will be aware that, in newspaper reports over the weekend, concerns were raised on proper access for communities to sports and leisure facilities within the Glasgow schools PPP. Indeed, constituents of mine in Glasgow Anniesland have raised the matter. Will the First Minister outline for members' benefit what the Executive intends to do to support Glasgow City Council's efforts to ensure the widest possible public access to those facilities and to ensure that that access does not result in increased payments to the private consortium that manages them?

Glasgow City Council is to be praised for the implementation of one of the biggest ideas in Scotland for a long time. In pursuing the schools PPP programme, the council has transformed secondary education in Glasgow, just as it is about to transform housing in Glasgow. The council deserves praise for both.

The council also deserves praise for including in the original contract provisions that secured community access at certain times and under certain conditions for the local communities. That was far-sighted of the council, and it was right and proper that it did that. Contrary to reports that we have seen occasionally in newspapers over recent days, that was in fact the case. However, because the schools are such high-quality, new facilities, demand has outstripped those provisions and the council is rightly renegotiating the contract.

I wish the council well. We will give it every support that we can, but it is the council's job to renegotiate the contract. I am sure that it will do so well.

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Office of Communications

To ask the First Minister what steps have been taken to secure a place for Scotland on the board of the new Office of Communications. (S1F-2132)

I have discussed the matter, as I have indicated to the Parliament before, with United Kingdom ministers and submitted our response to the draft Communications Bill, which advocates greater representation for Scotland within the Ofcom structure, including—as one option—a place on the full board.

When the First Minister indicated to the Parliament in May that he had made a number of representations to the UK Government to secure a place for Scotland on the Ofcom board, the Parliament and the broadcasting community in Scotland welcomed his comments warmly. However, we have a real problem, because London said no. Will the First Minister indicate today how he will overcome that problem? Will he reiterate his view that we must secure a place on the board so that we can protect the interests of Scotland's broadcasting community and protect Scottish culture and identity?

The premise is wrong: nobody has said no and the discussions continue. Those discussions are important. If Mr Lochhead has read our submission, which is available, he knows that provisions that we have suggested include a number of options. To have a committee in Ofcom with responsibility for Scottish interests might be a better option than to have one individual with all those responsibilities on the Ofcom board.

The discussion that we are having is not whether Scottish interests can be better represented in the new structure, but how they will be better represented in the new structure. Our efforts in that regard would have been substantially assisted if the Scottish National Party had made a submission to the Government's consultation on the topic—as we did—and ensured that its voice was heard in support of our position.

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Prisons (Cornton Vale)

To ask the First Minister what progress the Scottish Executive is making in reducing the prison population at HM Prison Cornton Vale. (S1F-2154)

Fifty prisoners will move from Cornton Vale to Greenock next month. Independent living units have provided a further eight spaces and work is in hand to provide nine spaces in the former training for freedom hostel at HMP Perth.

Another issue exists around the transfer of women prisoners from the various courts in Scotland to Cornton Vale. Will the First Minister agree to examine the problems for the staff at Cornton Vale when large numbers of women prisoners arrive late in the evening, often in a poor state of health that is exacerbated by the long waits after court hearings?

Sylvia Jackson has in the past raised issues about the overall size of the prison's population, and I understand the importance of her specific issue about provision in the evenings. We have various measures in place to ensure that a variety of provision for women prisoners at different stages in their terms of confinement is in place as quickly as possible. We expect major improvements in that regard in the course of the next year, and I am sure that when they have been implemented, the situation will be significantly better than it has been for a long time. I know that the Cornton Vale over-21s visiting committee recognises that we are absolutely committed to ensuring that that progress is made.

Does the First Minister agree that one of the main objectives is to reduce the number of crimes that are committed by increasing deterrence and by increasing the number of police officers on the streets, in which case the number of people going to prison will be reduced?

Yes.