Official Report 648KB pdf
We reconvene for a complete change of topic: we go from looking at inequality and poverty issues in the context of Scotland’s economic future to looking at Bannockburn live. The committee has taken an interest in Bannockburn live in the past; we produced a report on it May last year and we heard at the beginning of the year about it and related issues from Malcolm Roughead, who is the chief executive of VisitScotland.
I will welcome our panel of witnesses who have kindly joined us this morning—if I can find the bit of paper with their names, which I have done. From Stirling Council we have Councillor Neil Benny, who is deputy leader of the council, and Kevin Robertson, who is head of economy, planning and regulation. We also have Pete Irvine, who is managing director of Unique Events; Dr Mike Cantlay, who is chairman of VisitScotland; Caroline Packman, who is homecoming director of EventScotland; and Pete Selman, who is director of strategic development at the National Trust for Scotland. Welcome to you all.
I also welcome Bruce Crawford, the constituency MSP for Stirling, who has joined us for this session.
Thanks.
We are a little short of time—we have about an hour or so for this item—so I remind members to keep their questions fairly short and to the point. I also ask witnesses to be as short and to the point as they can be when responding to the questions. We have a disparate panel with various interests, so many of the questions will be directed to particular panel members and may not be relevant to others, but if panellists want to respond to a question or even to a point that is made by another panel member, they should catch my eye. I will bring them in as best I can, as time allows, and allow them to get their views on the record.
I start by inviting Dr Cantlay to outline, maybe in just a couple of minutes, where we are with the Bannockburn live event—I think that it is now nine weeks away, so it is coming up very quickly—in terms of planning, ticket sales and the structure of the event.
Thank you. I was just looking at the last letter I sent you, in which I highlighted 630 events in the homecoming 2014 programme. There are now 827 events in the programme, and I think that we are about to stop counting. That number is almost double that of the last homecoming programme, which is quite something. There are 95 signature events, of which two in particular are pertinent to today, because we sit as team Stirling. I usually represent team Scotland, but we are team Stirling today. Of course, Pipefest and Bannockburn live are two of those signature events. We will talk about armed forces day as well.
We have already enjoyed 233 events this year and homecoming is going very well so far. For example, Celtic Connections had the most successful year ever, with 110,000 attending, as did the Glasgow film festival, with 41,000 attending, and Electric Glen was sold out, with 24,000 attending.
We are now getting into the key events: some of the really special events. You will have noticed the John Muir festival kicking off this week with the launch of the John Muir way, and the event last week at the Kelpies, which was absolutely spectacular. With the likes of the Kelpies and Bannockburn live, the important thing for us is that the events drive on to a real legacy, thanks to the visitor centres there. We have the National Trust with us, which will be driving forward the very successful Bannockburn centre.
There are 594 events to go and we are looking forward to them all. The particular one that we are now leading is Bannockburn live, which was launched on 19 March. That is ironic, because you were keen to have us to talk about Bannockburn live on the date that we launched it.
I will pass over very briefly—because you want us to be brief—to Caroline Packman, who will give you the running issues and elements of Bannockburn live, and, maybe just very quickly, to Pete Irvine, to give you the gist of the entertainment programme that we launched on that day.
As Dr Cantlay said, the Bannockburn live programme launched on 19 March. Its fantastic line-up of music artists is as strong as any folk music festival in the UK this summer, but at a fraction of the price. That is in addition to the spectacular battle performances; re-enactors are converging from all over Europe to be part of that.
There is also a very strong programme of storytellers, genealogy and so on. There is a food and drink village that is curated by Scotland Food and Drink. Just yesterday we launched the children’s programme, because in addition to history enthusiasts and music fans we are very much targeting the family market with Bannockburn live.
We have had very strong ticket sales so far. We have now sold almost 3,800, which we are very pleased with: that is already a quarter of our target. We have had strong international interest: 33 per cent of ticket sales have been to overseas visitors and 18 per cent of total ticket sales have been to the US market. The premium-priced king’s tickets are fully sold out and the clan pitches are sold out.
Today we are delighted to announce that First ScotRail has come on board as title sponsor of the event, which is great news. We are also working in partnership with FirstBus, so in addition to it putting on shuttle buses to the event, it will be working with us on marketing and creative public relations opportunities in the run up to the event.
The event is in excellent shape. We have promoted it extensively through VisitScotland and our partner organisation networks, as well as through radio and press advertising. The biggest marketing push will come next month, with outdoor advertising focusing on train stations and buses. We have every confidence that Bannockburn live will be a huge success.
We are called Unique Events and that is what we do. A long time ago, we did the Scottish Parliament opening. We were very keen to get involved in Bannockburn live. In the beginning, the event was with the National Trust for Scotland. I saw the event as an opportunity to do something that had never been done before in the UK, although battle re-enactments take place, with the battle of Hastings being the big one in England.
In a way, the event has been 700 years in the diary. We were very keen to expand it from the battle re-enactment event that people thought it might be. It was not until that date in March at Stirling castle that we were able to convey what the event would be. It is a festival of not only Scottish history but of history in general. As we know, people are greatly interested in history programmes on television. The BBC is doing a big programme about Bannockburn. There are endless programmes about Scottish and other histories.
I saw the event as an opportunity to create an open-air festival that was not just a music festival or a battle re-enactment, but all that put together. Caroline Packman has mentioned a number of activities. We have a strong music programme that is comparable, as Caroline said, with any folk music festival in the UK. The music is traditional and contemporary—it is like Celtic Connections in the open air. The music element is deliberately included to convince people and to convey to them that the event is not just a battle thing.
The event is not a battle re-enactment; rather, it is a battle show, with more than 300 people from England, Scotland and all over Europe taking part. They will live the part. They will be in character all day in medieval encampments around the battle arena. Three shows will be held each day at 12 noon, 2 pm and 4 pm.
The storyville stage will tell Scotland’s story in words, if you like, but that will also include music, with some of Scotland’s top singer-songwriters involved, including Rachel Sermanni and Roddy Woomble.
We have food talks and book talks. Three books are coming out about Bannockburn, all of which will be discussed in the wider context of Scottish history. Food talks will take place in a giant tepee, with people including Mary Contini and Sue Lawrence. We are even holding a daily debate in which history will be discussed in a populist way, with academics and media people on the storyville stage.
There is a lot going on all at once. We must do that because the arena accommodates only about 3,000-4,000 people at a time to see the battle. Crowd management—getting people in and out of the arena—is a complex matter.
There are loads of activities going on throughout the programme on all the other stages, as well as at the clan village where genealogy resources will be provided. There will also be loads of pipe bands that we have not told anyone about yet. For £20 that is about the best deal for a day out in Britain for a summer festival.
Thank you very much. That was a very good sales pitch, Mr Irvine. It sounds like a great event and I am sure that the committee wants it to be a great success. In fact, I hope that we can come along and join you over the weekend.
I have a couple of questions before I bring in other members. Caroline Packman mentioned that 3,800 tickets have been sold to date. I think that 20,000 is the target. Is that right?
The target is 15,000; the capacity is 20,000.
Okay, that is fine. Originally, the target was 45,000 over three days, but the event has been scaled back quite a lot from that proposal.
That was the original capacity.
I am quite interested in overseas visitors. You will remember that the committee published a report on Bannockburn in May 2013. We looked at the year of homecoming in 2009 and how one of its great successes was the number of North American visitors who came over to support the gathering event that took place in Edinburgh, and a number of other events throughout the year. I think that you said that 18 per cent of sales have been to the US market, which is roughly 700.
If that is the maths, that is correct.
Using my pathetic mental arithmetic, it would be something around that figure. Is it satisfactory that 700 US visitors are coming to the event—it does not seem to me to be a very large number—or are you confident that more US visitors will come to other homecoming events throughout the year?
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First, that number is for is ticket sales so far for Bannockburn live. The target market for Bannockburn is overseas tourists, but it is also very much aimed at the market in Scotland and the rest of the UK. It is not just an ancestral, diaspora-related event. It is very different from the gathering in that respect.
Also, as we have mentioned, Bannockburn live is just one event in the full homecoming programme. We will be conducting an extensive international marketing campaign in all our key markets. Of course, many more Americans will come for homecoming events than will come just for Bannockburn. We are very pleased with the total of 33 per cent from overseas markets, which is great. Of the king’s tickets, 35 per cent have been sold to the US, 12 per cent to Canada and 7 per cent to Australia. Clearly the event is appealing to the diaspora market, but its appeal is much wider than that.
It would be remiss not to highlight Pipefest, which is a fantastic event in its own right on the Friday night. The Stirling guys have reminded me of the numbers—1,700 pipers will be piping down from Stirling castle. A substantial number of visitors—something like 400 Americans—will be attending that event. All the events dovetail. On 28 June, in Forres, there is Piping Hot, which is the European piping championships. The whole point of homecoming is how all the events integrate. It is a huge weekend for Stirling, but there are also a significant number of events throughout Scotland that weekend.
We would anticipate that a lot of people will decide to come to the event in the last few days before it. This event has never been done before, so there is perhaps a lower expectation of it than there is of an event that has been going on for decades, such as the Royal Highland show, or something comparable around that time. Visitors to Scotland who are around at the time, and not just people who live in the area, might see that the event is on and see the combination of all the events in Stirling and decide to come.
I am sure that it is obvious why the 45,000 that was referred to has been truncated to a capacity of 20,000, given that another event landed on the town on the same weekend. We had to reconfigure the event completely. Perhaps we will talk later about the mechanics of that. Clearly, something had to be done and that is what we did. It was sensible to have a more realistic target, considering that there is a free event in the same town—a small town in Scotland—on the same weekend.
I have one more question about the event finances. I do not think that we have seen a final business plan, but you have shared with us the projected business plan as of 28 January, which had a proposed total expenditure at that stage of £654,000. Is that still the correct total?
How this works is that the £650,000 is the total, but the potential cost comes down every time we sell a ticket. If we look at it in perspective, we are now down from £650,000 to £515,000 as the expected cost, thanks to the ticket sales and sponsorship and so on to date.
On the figures that you have provided for the £654,000 cost, £392,000 is coming in various public sector grants. Is that right?
Yes.
That is about 60 per cent of the total.
Yes. We are at about 25 per cent of our expected budget. If we look it in comparative terms, the Kelpies last weekend was a fabulous event, involving about 9,000 people. I understand that about 15 per cent of the tickets had been sold three and a half weeks before the event. The ticket sales came at the very last minute, which is what we anticipate will happen with Bannockburn live.
We are well ahead at the moment and there is a chance that we might make a profit out of the event; we will see as we get closer to it. If that was to happen, we could plough it back in to enhance the event further. Financially, the event is in good shape.
Making a profit is a distinct possibility because the target is just 75 per cent. We are not quite sure what happens to the profit.
I know what happens to the profit.
We can guess where the profit is going.
The figure that you talked about, convener, which is less than £400,000, is comparable with the public subsidies that go to arts events.
That is really the question that I wanted to ask. Is 60 per cent of the cost coming from the public sector comparable with other similar events?
Absolutely. A comparable figure goes to send an artist to the Venice biennale. We may not be aware of that, but that is what happens. Bannockburn live is a cultural event, so that sort of subsidy, for an event which may go on to make a profit, is comparable. The £500,000 that it has come down to is an odd way to look at it. We always consider the elements as being public subsidy, ticket sales, sponsorship and concessions. All those elements are on target.
Has any assessment been made of the economic input—the value of money spent—as a result of the event taking place in Stirling?
Bannockburn live will be evaluated as part of the overall economic evaluation of homecoming, so primary research will be conducted at the event among visitors so that we can establish where they came from, how long they stayed in Scotland and how important Bannockburn live was as a motivator in their visits to Scotland.
Do you have any projected figures for Bannockburn live?
According to our internal evaluation, the amount is in the region of £750,000. That will be confirmed after the event because the research that we do there will be much more detailed than the standard model that we apply to our event assessments.
On the grants and the costs, a comparable event is happening in practically the next field. For comparison, what is the cost for armed forces day? I have heard a figure of £250,000 from the council. I take it that it will be more than that and that some money will come from the Ministry of Defence.
Yes. The total cost of staging the armed forces day national event is about £524,000—just over £500,000. The council will subsidise that up to £250,000 and there will be other funding from sponsors, event sales—that is, car parking and souvenir programme sales—and event catering concessions. We are also on target for that.
The economic benefit of armed forces day to Stirling will also be evaluated, and we expect that to be in excess of £1 million. We also expect the value of the publicity that will be attracted through the armed forces day national event to be of that magnitude.
There was £250,000 from the council; how much came from the MOD?
The MOD is subsidising the event by £25,000. That is what it always provides for the armed forces day national events.
Are there any other public grants?
No, it is mainly from sponsorship and, as I said, events sales and concessions.
Two other members want to come in with supplementary questions. We are discussing the finances, so we might as well stick with that for the time being.
Pete Irvine suggested that, given the proximity of another free event, it is sensible that the Bannockburn live numbers have been scaled down from 45,000 to 15,000, although there will be capacity for 20,000. Do you not think that it is slightly unfortunate that the clash has occurred?
Yes. If I was just a commercial promoter who was involved in putting on a festival in Edinburgh or anywhere else and it was decided for whatever reason that another festival would be on the same weekend and would be free, I would have to do something, would I not? I would have to cancel, try to move the weekend, which has been in the diary—not just the National Trust’s diary—for a very long time, or redo the figures. It happens all the time that we redo the figures for festivals if we are not selling enough tickets. The public do not know because it is a commercial thing—they do not have to go through forensic examination of what you are actually up to.
There was concern about how we would maintain not just the event but the integrity of the event. At that point we had not completely worked out what the programme would be and I had a sense that there was real potential to make a great programme, so I am very pleased to say that we have managed to reconstruct the figures based on a much lower capacity of 15,000.
The National Trust event was not budgeted on a capacity of 45,000, of course; it was budgeted on 75 per cent of tickets being sold, which is about 32,000 tickets. That was our target. We reduced the size by about half because people were concerned—particularly the National Trust, because it is a charity—that a free event in the same town might attract a lot of local people who might not then come to Bannockburn live.
I was concerned about making sure the programme was really good, that people would want to come and that it was worth the money. That is what we have done.
Thank you, that is very helpful and I completely understand why you took those steps. Did the MOD come to the council and ask whether it would like that event, or did the council write to the MOD and suggest that it would like to be the national focus for armed forces day this year? If it was the latter, was the council unaware that Bannockburn live was happening next door?
That was my question.
The process for the application for the armed forces day national event is subject to an audit, which will happen after the event. We are currently occupied with trying to make the event as successful as possible and then there will be an audit, whose results will be made public in the future.
When I first heard about the armed forces day national event, it was not clear that there was a clash of dates because the dates were not necessarily set. However, the MOD, which is an external agency, set the date and we did not have a choice in that.
Was the decision taken by the full council? Was it taken by one individual? Is there a record of where and how the decision was agreed by Stirling Council?
I believe that that information has already been made available to this committee. It went to a civic committee of the council—that was when it was first discussed.
That is a committee that would usually decide on small grants to community organisations, but it had the power to make the decision on behalf of the whole council.
No, the committee looks at all events in the civic calendar. Anything that is considered civic would be discussed.
But you are saying that Stirling Council was unaware that Bannockburn live was happening.
No, that is not what I am saying.
But you just said that Stirling Council was not sure about the date that the MOD—
I personally was not sure about the date that the MOD was going to set for the armed forces day.
I am somewhat staggered by the lack of co-ordination or discussion. Perhaps Dr Cantlay could help—I assume that VisitScotland must publish a calendar and it will probably be liaising with local authorities all the time on issues such as this. Are you surprised that we find ourselves in this position?
We would have liked at least to know a little earlier that the event was coming if there was the possibility of that. However, it is important to say that we are in the events business and we take every opportunity that we get. We are delighted to be working with Stirling Council and we are determined that we will make the most of the weekend and the opportunity of running the three events.
We can look at it both ways: if the armed forces day had been on a separate weekend, potentially there would have been two opportunities for the local trade. However, I think that it is fair to say that having the three events together will create an amazing spectacle. We will certainly be working with Stirling Council to use the opportunity to position Stirling on the world stage. We will work very hard to ensure that.
Thank you. I have one further question for Councillor Benny. I believe that the audit committee of Stirling Council is having an inquiry at the moment into how the decision was made. Do you know when that inquiry will finish and when its results will be published?
Yes. That is the external audit that I was speaking about. The audit committee that I sit on asked the chief executive to commission a piece of work to look at the process leading up to the decision making for the national armed forces day. That work is being done by external auditors. I am not entirely sure when they will report, but it will probably be after the summer.
Thank you.
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Bruce Crawford can go next.
Thank you for allowing me to ask questions, convener. I have another question on transport, if you do not mind.
We will come back to that later, if that is all right.
That is fine.
I have my king’s tickets for me and my wife, so I am signed up to the event. I am with Dr Cantlay: I think that the weekend could be a spectacular success, despite the fact that both events are being held on the same day. I am on record as saying that. I think that we would all agree that it is critical that, whatever we do, the whole thing dovetails as well as it can on that weekend. However, I am interested to know what economic assessment was done by the council prior to the decision to make an application for the armed forces day event with regard to the potential for the events taking place on the same day.
The council would not normally make a full economic assessment before it makes such a decision. The event would not have been the subject of a large-scale look at exactly what the economic impact would be. The decisions that were taken leading up to the bid for the armed forces day national event focused on the idea of creating a major event in the Stirling area.
I have said a number of times that the event is not only a huge honour for Stirling but a major opportunity. Just the other week, we held an event to allow local businesses to find out about all the different things that are going on in the 2014 calendar. As well as the big weekend, there are other major events taking place in the Stirling area, which will be a huge economic opportunity. When we bring large numbers of people into the town, we create a significant opportunity for businesses and for that economic impact to happen.
Perhaps Kevin Robertson can say something more about economic assessments. My colleagues and I took the view that, by holding such a large event, we will create major economic opportunities.
The armed forces day national event forms part of a year-long calendar of events in Stirling. We have 240 events occurring in the Stirling area during 2014. We started off with the hogmanay 2013 event, which was a fabulous success and generated significant economic benefits for Stirling and the wider central Scotland area—that is important.
The weekend is a fabulous opportunity for Stirling to showcase itself. We will have a huge number of visitors, many of whom may go to the armed forces day national event and to Bannockburn live on the Sunday. We expect that we will get significant economic benefits for the Stirling area.
We have Pipefest on the Friday, the armed forces day national event on the Saturday, and Bannockburn live on Saturday and Sunday. On the Saturday evening we are having a big night in Stirling, which will involve a lot of activity with pubs, restaurants, hotels, outdoor performances and so on. We hope that a lot of our visitors will stay and avail themselves of the opportunities. We expect huge economic benefits for Stirling and there will of course be, as I outlined earlier, a full economic assessment of the weekend.
So no prior economic assessment was done. What financial modelling, if any, was done prior to the application being made?
With regard to the financial assessment, as Councillor Benny said, we did not carry out a full economic appraisal because we knew that there would be significant economic benefits to Stirling.
Once the MOD had announced that Stirling was hosting the armed forces national event, we were able to build up what the event would cost. We have been to Edinburgh, Nottingham and Plymouth, which have hosted the past three—very successful—armed forces day national events, and that has given us a clear indication of what the costs will be. We are working within a cost plan that outlines that.
Are you confirming that no financial modelling was carried out prior to the application being made?
No detailed modelling was carried out prior to that.
It was a bit of a surprise when it was announced that the armed forces day national event was going to be in Stirling. No one was aware of the mechanics of that decision, so there was no opportunity to think about the economic implications of having the events on the same weekend. The idea that it would all come together for a big Stirling weekend obviously came subsequently, once the situation was understood, because I do not think anyone, including the police, knew that it was going to happen. The congregation of events in Stirling on that weekend is a solution to the situation and will make a significant impact, but the announcement came out of the blue.
I was going to go through the timeline and the decision-making process later, but I will ask a question now. At the end of the day, somebody made a decision. Who was it? Who made the decision that the armed forces day event would take place, knowing that there was going to be a Bannockburn live event?
We have said earlier that the decision process is subject to an external audit, and it would be inappropriate at this stage to talk about that before the audit report is made public. The committee will have the chance to see that report when it comes out.
In my business experience, having an audit before an event actually happens suggests that something is wrong with the event, and that there are concerns. What are the concerns?
The armed forces day national event has the full support of the council on a cross-party basis. There were two dissenters, who dissent from having any armed forces event in Stirling, which is fine—that is their principled stance. The armed forces day national event has been the subject of a number of council discussions at the full council, and at each opportunity it has been endorsed on a cross-party basis.
The audit will go into all the intricacies of the individual decision-making processes leading up to the announcement, but the fact is that the council stands 100 per cent squarely behind the event and the huge economic and social legacy that we will get out of it. These are significant opportunities for the council, and the council stands behind that.
I am sure that we all want both events to be successful. I have some concerns, given that these are huge events, that we have not seen the detailed planning as part of a business plan, either for Bannockburn live or for the armed forces day event. I hope that there will be more people attending than is currently planned, but that brings challenges too.
It is still not clear to me how such a decision could be made and yet Scotland’s premier events organisation was, according to Mr Irvine, unaware, and did not know what the mechanism was. How could that happen?
Those are the type of issues that we are trying to get at through the audit. At the moment, we are trying to focus on the fact that the weekend is a huge opportunity for Stirling. We are trying to organise what is a huge weekend and a tremendous opportunity for Stirling. Those are issues that we need to look at through the audit and learn from in the future.
I am sure that we will look at the audit once it is prepared. I have one last question, coming back to the finances. There are two events on the same day. My colleague Mike MacKenzie asked about the economic output, and Caroline Packman, who did a great job on the John Muir event that I attended on Monday, spoke about that. How will you ensure that your individual revenues and expenses are ring fenced, so that one event is not more successful at the expense of the other? How do you determine the success of both events?
We will no doubt come on to planning and transport and what have you, and look at the economic benefits and how they are apportioned.
The armed forces day event is managed within the council, so it would probably be more appropriate for Kevin Robertson to answer that question.
We have a very robust cost plan set out for the armed forces day national event, and I outlined the headline costs and income earlier. The project will be managed and delivered within the cost plan, which is very important.
It is more for VisitScotland to talk about the costs relating to Bannockburn live. I think that it was outlined to you earlier where VisitScotland’s income will come from.
What is important is that both events will be a huge success and will generate huge economic value, and equally that both events have been very effectively project managed. We have established a joint liaison steering group and joint working groups on transport and infrastructure, marketing and communication, and emergency planning, which link both events in all those aspects. We have a highly effective joint working arrangement, which is ensuring that the events, while perhaps not being complementary, are being co-ordinated in such a fashion that they will both be successful and of huge benefit to Stirling and Scotland. I am sure that it will be an extremely successful day in all respects.
The Bannockburn live budget is being managed by Unique Events. It is a very precise budget—we know exactly where all the money is going. As usual, there is a contingency, which we will not spend unless we really have to. It is a very simple matter. We know what the income will be, apart from the income from the ticket sales, and we are working hard together to ensure that the ticket sales target and all the other targets are met. We are managing all the items of expenditure, of which there are hundreds, extremely carefully. We will bring the event in on budget.
I repeat that I hope that both events will be successful. I am sure that that will happen, with the will of those who are involved. However, there is always a downside risk, which brings me to my final question. What provision for contract exposure have you made with organisations?
In terms of—
Fulfilling a contract.
That is completely covered with Bannockburn live. We have negotiated with all those who are contracted. Bannockburn live will go ahead and will be great. The situation is fairly straightforward; it is a straightforward event.
When the National Trust for Scotland asked us to take on the event, that was primarily—in fact, it was entirely—because armed forces day was coming and the event had to be configured in such as way as to achieve the best fit. For example, the capacity has been reduced from 15,000 people a day to 10,000 people a day primarily because the events that we will run on the field will take up so much space that it would not be possible to fit in more than 10,000 people, what with the battle enactment going on and the camp site and so on. That has been done to make best use of the assets.
The contractors at Bannockburn live are entirely covered. The event is looking absolutely fine—it is in good shape.
Stirling Council manages its financial and contractual obligations under a robust and audited set of controls. I do not know whether Kevin Robertson has anything more specific to say.
I would say the same. The temporary event infrastructure and services are covered by robust contracts. Of course, a lot of what will happen on armed forces day will be provided by the armed forces themselves. We have certainty that they will provide what is required.
Thank you.
It would appear from some of the answers that we have had that there was an element of surprise when it was announced that armed forces day would be held on the same day as Bannockburn live. We have heard that people seem to be reacting to the fact that the two events will take place at the same time.
I have a question for Dr Cantlay. How far down the road were you in your planning of infrastructure and transport logistics such as the provision of bus and rail services and park-and-ride facilities? Did you have to refocus? It has been suggested that there is now a liaison group that is looking at that. Did that have a huge impact on your initial planning?
It is important to highlight again that we took on the event from the National Trust only in mid-January. We had two months until the launch of the event on 19 March. Pete Selman and Caroline Packman might be better placed to help.
We need to appreciate that, with armed forces day, Stirling Council has a huge project on its hands. Potentially, 50,000 people could come, which is a lot of people. Bannockburn live is budgeted to attract around 7,500 people on the Saturday. VisitScotland and EventScotland are responsible for delivering the Ryder cup on behalf of the Government, and the Ryder cup will attract 45,000 people a day. Armed forces day is a very big event and, as chair of VisitScotland, I am dedicated to ensuring that we help Stirling Council as best we can and that we deliver the three events successfully.
We must look at the situation as a great opportunity. We must ensure that we seize the chance to position Stirling and Scotland on the world stage.
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I think that it is a fantastic opportunity and that it will be a showcase for Stirling. However, I come back to the fact that we seem to be reacting to something that had not been planned, initially.
Mr Selman, could you answer the question about the logistics and how we are doing in terms of preparedness for transport?
Of course. I should say at the outset that the National Trust for Scotland is still fully involved in the project as a host, as a participant that is providing some of the activities and entertainment, as a provider of extensive marketing support and as a partner in the liaison group. We have not gone away. However, we do not have a role as a promoter. In that respect we are not taking the risk or, I might add, sharing in the potential upside.
I will briefly set out the timeline that led us to where we are now, because I think that it is important for the committee to have that. The National Trust for Scotland had always planned to hold a re-enactment, albeit a modest one, in June 2014 to coincide with the anniversary of the battle and the opening of our new visitor centre. We were subsequently approached by VisitScotland, with the homecoming team, on the back of questions about whether there would be a clan gathering in Scotland. There was a discussion around the table about whether there was an opportunity for Scotland and Stirling to widen the scope of our plans and extend the duration of the event.
The National Trust for Scotland recognised the opportunity that was before us, which is now coming to fruition, and we were well and truly up for it on the condition that it would be cost neutral for us, as speculating on a commercial enterprise is not our core business and the event would have to be a charging, ticketed one. Once we agreed that the proposal was possible, a funding package was assembled, a competent and experienced project manager was appointed to put together the events programme and various joint liaison forums were set up, particularly with Police Scotland, the local authority and Transport Scotland because the logistics were always going to be a crucial part of the operation. Everything was moving along nicely, but we were taken by surprise on 25 August when we heard, through the media, that the armed forces day event was going to be in town.
You heard through the media.
That is correct. That immediately meant that we had to go back to the drawing board and consider the impact that the announcement would have on the business model that had been put together, given that we then had a charging event going head to head with a free event. The market appeal of both events had a potential overlap, which meant that we could split the market, and there were logistical uncertainties in the emerging plans for traffic management such as park-and-ride schemes, shuttle buses, car parking locations and so on.
There was an immediate meeting of the joint liaison group, which was chaired by me and involved Stirling Council and various funding bodies including VisitScotland, the homecoming team and Unique Events. At that meeting, stock was taken of the information that had landed upon us and there was a discussion of what we were going to do collectively and what the National Trust’s position might be thereafter. The conclusion was simple. We recognised that the event represented a big opportunity for Stirling and that we had to pull together to make damn sure that it happened. That approach is what the energy and effort have been put into subsequently.
However, at the same time, it was decided that the National Trust would be unable to continue as the lead agency—as the promoter and risk taker—because the financial proposition was more uncertain. When the information was presented to our trustees, they were clear that there was an unacceptable risk for a charitable enterprise such as ours and that the proposal was different from our core purpose. Therefore, all the energy and effort was put into the transfer of the undertakings, which had to be agreed and negotiated, from us to VisitScotland and into keeping the momentum going as best we could. That approach has continued to this day, now that we know where the operating responsibility lies, and the event programme is adapting to the circumstances.
As I said at the outset, the National Trust remains a member of the liaison group and is committed to playing its part in a number of respects.
Who is taking the lead on the infrastructure and transport? There is a liaison group, but who is taking the lead to ensure that we have the park and ride, rail links, bus links and car parking? Is it Stirling Council?
It is Stirling Council. As you have highlighted, Stirling is fortunate to be well served by good transport infrastructure including motorway links, rail services and so forth. We have established the joint transport and infrastructure group, which has been running for the past seven months and has developed a robust transport plan for the event.
To make the event a huge success for Stirling and to ensure that the large number of visitors get to Stirling without undue delay, we have put in place a robust plan that involves park and ride, car parking and specific routes to both events. The plan also involves increased capacity on rail services, which has been agreed with First ScotRail, and we are encouraging groups to arrive by hired coach or minibus. National Express and other bus operators are increasing their services to Stirling on that day—in fact, National Express is giving discounts on services. We have adequate parking for both events and shuttle buses will operate between the city centre and Bannockburn to allow people to get to and from Bannockburn and to come to armed forces day, should they wish to spend part of their day there.
I take it that Transport Scotland will be involved.
Absolutely. Tranport Scotland, Police Scotland, BEAR Scotland, the council, the events management companies and all the partners that are represented around the table today are on that group. The transport plan was tested a couple of weeks ago and some minor adjustments have been made to it, but we have a robust transport plan in place.
For our part, we have been working on the transport plan for a year. The fortuitous aspect of the infrastructure is that there are two motorway junctions, one of which will be used for Bannockburn live traffic while the other is being used for armed forces day traffic. As far as we are concerned, we are looking after that. As soon as people leave the motorway and come to our area, we will have enough provision for parking and will also have the bus stops and the park-and-ride facilities worked out.
Hundreds of people will be on site anyway, because we will have clans there from all over the world. We will have thousands of people working on the event and they will have to park, too, so we are working in detail on where they will park, where the traders will park and how the public will get to and from the site throughout the two days—the event takes place over a weekend. We are pretty far advanced with our transport plan and it is dovetailing with the wider plan now that armed forces day is with us.
Is there a contingency plan in case of bad weather? I suppose that a lot of the parking will be in fields. Is there a contingency plan in case the weather is—as Scottish weather can be sometimes—wet on the day, to ensure that there are appropriate fields for parking in and that there will be no disruption?
It is a two-day event, and if it was very wet on the Saturday the field could get churned up, so we have another field—a contingency field, as it were. However, Bannockburn live will not involve the number of cars that will be involved with armed forces day.
What about the parking for armed forces day?
The majority of parking for armed forces day will be on hard standing. We are using existing car parks that are being provided by local businesses and business parks, and there is contingency parking in the city. Given that we might have wet weather that could make some of the field parking more difficult, at the outset we have moved a substantial proportion of the parking away from grassed areas.
Bruce Crawford has a follow-up question on transport. Do other members want to ask about transport?
My question is on a related issue.
I will give priority to the committee member.
That is fine for the parking, but if 50,000 people are on a field for an event, that will also cause a lot of churn. What is the contingency plan for the alpha site?
The event field on the site of the armed forces day national event has been drained, so we have a surface that will cope with wet weather up to a point. We are also ensuring that there is sufficient trackway to allow visitors to move around the field. Should we have to move part of the event from one part of the field to another, we will have that contingency in place. However, we fully expect the event field and the layout that we have developed to cope with typical Scottish June weather.
I looked up the weather statistics. It rains for one third of the days in Scotland, even in the middle of June.
You are a cheery chappie.
I know. I can always see the bright side of life.
There is, therefore, a substantial risk. Should it rain heavily and the flow mechanism not work, with 50,000 people moving around, has an alternative site been prepared for armed forces day?
For an event of the complexity and scale of the armed forces day national event, it would not be possible to have a second site. I have outlined that the site will be very well prepared.
I take your point that it rains a lot in Scotland, but we have many outdoor events in Scotland that are able to carry on in that type of weather. We fully expect that what we have put in place and the contingency planning will be able to cope with typical June weather. Let us hope that it does not rain, but we can expect some rain.
I have experienced in my constituency what happens with transport projects if Transport Scotland is not involved. Have you consulted Transport Scotland about transport planning for both events?
Yes.
Has it given its seal of approval to the plans that are being put in place?
Transport Scotland is a key partner, and it has been involved in the transport planning from the outset, which has included traffic modelling.
As Pete Irvine said, it is fortunate that Stirling has two motorway junctions, and modelling has been undertaken at both junctions. The majority of traffic will leave at junction 10 for armed forces day, and there will be no more traffic using junction 9 to go to Bannockburn live on the Saturday than there would be coming into Stirling at peak time on a typical weekday morning. Therefore, we are confident that the traffic will be handled there. Similarly, our modelling has shown that junction 10 will work.
As I said, Transport Scotland has been involved from the outset. We are making one or two adjustments to suit its requirements, but it is relatively comfortable with how things are moving forward.
The transport plan is not finalised yet, but Transport Scotland is a key partner in finishing it.
Absolutely. We hope to sign off the transport plan in the next week or so.
What about Transport Scotland’s involvement in Bannockburn live?
The transport plan has been signed off.
Yes. Transport Scotland has already signed off the Bannockburn live transport plan.
Marco Biagi has covered some of the ground on this, so I will cut to the chase. On 11 April, Johanna Boyd, the leader of Stirling Council, was involved in correspondence with the minister. At that stage, she said that the council expected the plan to receive final sign-off at a meeting of key agencies that week. It is now 23 April. What issues are preventing sign-off? Obviously, that is critical to the success of both events.
The Easter holidays have delayed that. Key officers were not necessarily there—that is the only reason.
The minor adjustments that we are talking about are to do with, for example, where we would put some signage in the plan. We want to sign off the plan 100 per cent. If we needed to make any adjustments on the day, we would be able to do that. We fully expect the plan to be signed off in the next week.
On 11 April, the council expected that the plan would be signed off in the next week. Forgive me, but that was a wee bit before Easter. Easter perhaps got in the way, but I hope that there are only minor issues and that the plan can be signed off, because it is crucial to the release of Government support for the event.
Yes. We are well aware of that. I assure you that they are just minor details.
It is not unusual for a transport plan to be finalised much closer to the event. The main thing that we need is the public to be aware of how they will get to and from the events. We need to get information about that out to them.
Okay. Joan McAlpine will ask the next question.
My question is not about transport.
I think that we have covered transport and can move on.
Okay. I am new to the committee and new to the subject, as the event is not in my region and I was not a member of the committee when evidence was taken previously. However, today has been a revelation and a shock to me. The revelation was Mr Irvine’s outline of the event, which sounds really exciting—I definitely want to go and buy my tickets now. However, I am shocked by what I have heard about how armed forces day just seems to have been bounced—that is the only word that I can use—on the organisers of the existing festival.
I will ask the question that is probably in the back of everybody’s mind, although nobody has asked it yet. Mr Irvine, do you think that it was a political decision to have armed forces day in Stirling at the same time as Bannockburn live? Was it perhaps even motivated by a desire to diminish the Bannockburn festival in some way?
12:45
I do not get involved in politics, and I do not like to get involved in commenting on politics. I am not ducking the question. As I said earlier, I do not know how such decisions are made. We heard about it via the media—that is all. I have no further comment to make about it.
Both events will be in my council ward, although most of the national armed forces day event will be on the other side of the road. I like to think that both events are happening in my back yard. I am really keen for the Bannockburn live event to be as successful as possible. It is a huge opportunity for the people of Stirling and for businesses in Stirling. It is a great way in which to commemorate the battle of Bannockburn, which is a major part of the attractiveness of Stirling to visitors.
I went to Borestone primary school, which is right next to the visitor centre. Interestingly, I was on the planning panel that gave the new visitor centre approval, and I think that it is brilliant—it is a wonderful thing. It is tremendously important to me that the opening event is successful. It is also tremendously important to the council. There is no question of there having been any attempt to diminish the Bannockburn live event on the part of Stirling Council.
However, it has been diminished. Mr Irvine has said that he has had to revise his business plan to curtail the festival.
The armed forces day national event is taking place on the Saturday; the curtailment of the event is to do with the Monday. I am not sure that the two things are necessarily connected.
Mr Irvine runs the most successful events company in Scotland. He specifically said at the outset of his evidence that he changed the plan because armed forces day was bounced—he did not use the word “bounced” but it was clearly bounced—on him.
I do not see the connection myself.
Perhaps I can help. Beyond what Pete Irvine said, our events team got in about it, and we had the opportunity to consider with Pete how we can make the most of Bannockburn live and how it dovetails with armed forces day. That has led to a number of really important benefits for Bannockburn live, in particular.
We have folded the Monday into the Saturday and Sunday, but that was also because the demand for the Saturday and Sunday outstripped the demand for the Monday massively—there was very little demand for the Monday. As a result, we have managed to extend the hours on both the Saturday and the Sunday, and we have extended the programme. The event is better still on the Saturday and Sunday, and the people who come will have a really good day. That has allowed us to use the Monday for the clans, who are very excited about that. We have been able to seize the opportunity to bring things round to the good.
I say as a Stirling person that there is no doubt that it is now a matter of heads down across the political divide to make the most of all three events that are coming our way at the end of June. I intend to be as much a part of that as I possibly can be.
On the political sensitivities, you are presumably saying, Dr Cantlay, that the approach of VisitScotland and other organisations that are involved in both events has been to support the events and make them as successful as possible. That goes beyond the fact that armed forces day is, to be blunt, happening at a sensitive time with regard to the referendum. The decision to expand the Bannockburn celebrations from the original ideas also came at a sensitive time. I presume that the approach has involved everyone across the political spectrum getting behind the events. From your point of view, it is almost a matter of taking out the political sensitivities that affect both events.
That is exactly right. We are focused on making the most of the three events and, indeed, the other events of the weekend.
When I opened the “Remember Bannockburn!” event at the Smith art gallery and museum last week, I was interested in the large number of politicians who attended. There was our provost, a past provost, the past provost before the past provost and many others from across the political divide, including an ex-Presiding Officer. I made the comment—indeed, you said as much yourself, convener—that there is an absolute anticipation that the Bannockburn event and Bannockburn live in particular will be conducted in a manner that will celebrate the occasion appropriately. There is absolute support for that, and our job at the events end with the EventScotland team and VisitScotland is to support Stirling Council.
Over the coming period, I will be part of the steering group for armed forces day, and we will do everything possible to ensure that this will be a spectacular weekend for Stirling and Scotland.
I share my colleagues’ astonishment at what we are hearing today. Mr Selman has said that he was organising a big important event of national significance and that he only found out through the media that another big event of national importance and significance will be happening in a neighbouring field. No one would suggest that that was helpful or even courteous—it is just not vaguely sensible. How much consultation is going on with traders, hoteliers and bed and breakfast owners who, as Dr Cantlay pointed out, could have had two bumper weekends out of the events? I understand that we are where we are and that we will make the most of the situation—I am sure that it will be a positive and successful weekend—but we could have had two incredibly positive and successful weekends shining a light on the great city of Stirling.
However, that is probably an issue for another day. I want to be reassured that there will be more consultation, liaison and dialogue in future. The point is that the national tourism agency for Scotland was unaware of what one of our largest councils was intending to do. How is VisitScotland’s calendar shared with others? After all, we would not want the situation to happen again—or, at least, we would like to have a discussion about whether that is what we would want to happen instead of simply having to accept it and change our plans.
You make a good point about ensuring widespread knowledge of the calendar. We are here to help at any point. I have been having an on-going discussion with the provost in particular, and we are offering support and help in any way we can.
The point is well made that, the sooner we know about events, the better. We are here to help anyone who is organising events in Scotland, and we do so to the best of our ability. This is a classic year. An amazing 800 events are taking place, and dovetailing all of them presents a significant challenge. It is such a great opportunity to exploit.
Having listened to your answer, Dr Cantlay, which I think was assuaging, I come back to the correct question that was asked of Stirling Council. Why have you reduced the numbers and the days for the event? Is it not purely because it has been bounced?
To be fair, I think that dropping the Monday and reducing the event to the weekend was an obvious thing to do. To be exact, 134 people had bought—
The National Trust for Scotland did not think that it was the obvious thing to do.
Well—
I am sorry, Dr Cantlay, but did you say that 134 people had bought tickets?
Yes. The reduction was the obvious thing to do, and we offered those 134 people tickets for the Saturday and Sunday.
The guys who are responding to you have brought the project through from August. We took the project on from January, and there was a handful of really obvious things to do, which we have done. Reducing the number of days was the key thing, and we are also extending the hours to overlap with armed forces day.
The most important thing that I hope to get from the committee is a real sign-off for Bannockburn live. In my professional view, this project is in really good shape. Lots of people will be listening to what you have to say, and I hope that you will give them confidence that Bannockburn live is going to be an excellent event and that they should be buying tickets for it—as I know members will, too. Our ticket sales always spike after a committee session, and I am going to hold you to that. [Laughter.]
In that case, we should get you in every week.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Yes, provided that there is a positive result from this meeting.
I reiterate that Bannockburn live, whatever it might have been, or whatever people thought that it might be, is now configured on exactly the right scale and is of the right nature. The event is a complete one-off and will never happen again. It is a unique event for Scotland.
Armed forces day is a very different event that also happens in other places. Bannockburn live will never be seen again, and I think that there will be huge public interest in it. The politicising of the event has not been helpful, because Bannockburn live has been created as a cultural celebration, and that is what it is.
I very much look forward to what I think will be a superb event. Indeed, I hope that both events are good.
To return to the economic benefit, Councillor Benny said in response to my earlier questions that the assessment of the benefit is about £1 million. Was that figure for the wider economic benefit?
Sorry, but I think that it was Kevin Robertson who said that.
Yes, it was.
We have looked at similar armed forces day national events that have taken place in the past three years—I mentioned that we had been to Plymouth and Nottingham and to Edinburgh, where the event was held in 2011. From the indications in evaluating the success of those events, we are confident that the economic benefit for the Stirling area from the armed forces day national event will be £1 million plus.
To pick up on the earlier point about engagement with local businesses, over the past 18 months, we have had a programme of engagement with tourism businesses, hoteliers and other supply service businesses in the run-up to 2014. Businesses in the Stirling area have been well aware of the 2014 programme. In the past six weeks, we have held sessions in Callander, Dunblane and Bridge of Allan, and we had a session in Stirling that was well attended by a range of businesses.
The businesses were able not only to hear what is happening over that particular weekend and other weekends but to meet the various agencies that are delivering the projects. The businesses can therefore avail themselves of every opportunity that the increased visitor numbers will bring, including the economic benefit to them.
Am I correct in saying that you have not done a proper sophisticated cost benefit analysis, and that you have just looked at what other areas were able to achieve and worked it out somehow or other?
We will undertake a full evaluation of the event once it has taken place, but we do not do detailed evaluation in advance. We have examples of the benefits that hogmanay, which is a much smaller event, brings to Stirling, and we can scale up from that.
It has been suggested that it may have been better for the people of Stirling to arrange the events to be held on different occasions in order to maximise the benefits. I take it that you cannot say whether that would be the case.
What we need to focus on, as we are doing—
Please answer the question. You are not in a position to say whether that would have been a better option.
We are not in a position to say whether it would be a better option. However, I can say that the events of the weekend will be a fantastic opportunity and will provide a huge economic benefit for Stirling.
Okay—I think that we have got that, and I hope that you are correct.
I have one misgiving. I understand that you have had to undertake drainage work in the field where the event is taking place. Just the other day, a friend of mine in Stirling told me that the field has not even been seeded yet, which gives me a bit of concern. Should I bring my wellies to attend the armed forces day national event? I know something about these matters. Will the event be held in a really muddy field that is impossible to use?
No. The field has been sown, rolled, redrained and—
When did that happen?
It happened in the past couple of weeks. We fully expect that the field will be ready well in advance of the armed forces day national event; that is the advice that we have received from those whom we have consulted. Although it may not look like there is much grass there at the moment, we are assured that we will have a grass covering for the event.
I hope that you have that assurance in writing and a good copy of it with your lawyers. To any of us who know about the Scottish climate, it sounds a wee bit optimistic to hear that you are going to have grass that 50,000 people will be able to walk on.
We are very confident that the field will be ready in advance of the event.
Okay—thank you. I very much hope that you are correct.
13:00
We heard from VisitScotland about the sponsorship successes for Bannockburn live. I know that sponsorship is being sought for the armed forces day, too. To date, who has committed to sponsorship? I think that the target was £190,000 to be raised from sponsorship. How close are you to meeting that?
That is correct. We are concluding our sponsorship agreements, but I would not want to say at this stage who any sponsors are.
You are confident that you will get to your target.
We are reasonably confident that we will get to the target.
I want to make a positive point. There is an argument that, if the events were taking place on separate days, the city would have had two bites at the cherry, and I think that that is well appreciated. The alternative, of course, concerns the wider impact of the huge amount of activity that is taking place, and showcasing that activity to the world.
On a national scale, I compare the event with the Ryder cup—people are staying all over central Scotland to attend an event that takes 45,000 people a day. Having an event on the scale of armed forces day plus Bannockburn live plus Pipefest should mean that the whole of central Scotland will benefit considerably over that weekend. We are working with partners to ensure that we maximise that opportunity.
Can you clarify that the change in the Bannockburn programme was due to an early indication of low ticket sales, at around 1,000 of the 45,000 tickets that were available?
No. The figure of 45,000 is in effect erroneous, as I explained. The event is quite different in scale—it can take only 10,000 people a day. The reason for moving from the Monday was primarily because of the imbalance of demand. The demand from people was to come on the Saturday and Sunday and not on the Monday, so the trick was to encourage them to come on the Saturday and Sunday and extend the programme. That is why we are so confident that anyone coming to Bannockburn live on the Saturday and Sunday—which we hope includes everybody here—will have a great time.
Those early ticket figures were in no way surprising. Bannockburn live is a completely new event, and we would anticipate that people do not know what it is. The king’s tickets sold out so quickly and completely because there was a perceived demand, as there were a limited number. People buy tickets when they think that they are hot, because they think that the event will sell out.
The change in the programme was due to the lack of demand for the Monday, and therefore you changed that to suit people—
When we reduce capacity due to expectation that there is competition from a free event, we have to redraw the budget. The ticket income is a significant part of that budget. If we predict that fewer tickets are likely to be sold because there is a free event on, we have to reduce the expenditure. It is simple arithmetic.
But the Monday was not popular anyway, which is why the programme was changed.
No, the Monday was not popular, and it has—
It may have become popular, but that was not put to the test. The Monday was less popular than the other two days, not surprisingly.
There are a lot of children’s activities going on, and yet children’s tickets are £12.50. Has any thought been given to offering family tickets, or how to attract children?
Family tickets are available. In fact, when we took over the project, we amended the pricing. Previously, kids under two went free, and now it is kids under five.
The musical line-up is superb. It is so superb that Brian Ferguson from The Scotsman even had to accept that it was a superb line-up—so there.
The family ticket is much cheaper than tickets for comparable events in Scotland.
Finally, we have not really discussed the programme for the clan day on the Monday. What is happening on the Monday?
That is an exclusive event for the clans that are taking pitches at Bannockburn live. It is really intended as a thank you to them for their participation in the event. It is based on exclusive access to the Bannockburn visitor centre, thanks to the National Trust for Scotland. There is some entertainment and a chance for clan members to network and catch up with their friends. It is a fairly low-key thank you to show our appreciation for their involvement.
That concludes our session. I am grateful to you all for coming along and sharing your views. I think that I speak for all committee members when I say that we wish you every success with Bannockburn live and the armed forces day event. As somebody who represents Stirling, I hope that the weekend turns out to fulfil all the expectations for the local community and the local economy. We look forward to seeing that spike in ticket sales later this week, subsequent to your appearance at the committee.
13:05 Meeting continued in private until 13:10.Previous
Scotland’s Economic Future Post-2014