Standards Committee, 12 Sep 2001

Meeting date: Wednesday, September 12, 2001

Official Report 130KB pdf

---

Lobbying

Agenda item 2 is consideration of paper ST/01/11/2, which summarises the responses to the committee's consultation paper on lobbying. I ask members to note that there is a typographical error in paragraph 47. The last word in paragraph 47 should be "Convention", rather than "Committee".

The consultation paper set out the committee's thinking on a possible statutory registration scheme for commercial lobbyists. The committee's decision to examine that issue was underpinned by the need to ensure transparency and openness in the relationship between lobbyists and those lobbied. We received 37 responses in all. Colleagues will note that there continues to be considerable opposition to our proposals from the commercial lobbyists. There is also substantial opposition to disclosure of information that is viewed as being confidential and commercially sensitive, such as detailed information on fees and on organisations' tactics.

In the voluntary sector there remain concerns that the definition of lobbying set out in the consultation paper could be interpreted to include organisations that provide an information service on the Parliament and that levy subscriptions for membership fees. As that is clearly not the committee's aim, I suggest that we revisit the working definitions of lobbying and commercial lobbyists.

I look forward to hearing members' comments both on the points that I have raised and on the consultation process as a whole. I invite members to comment on the responses that have been received. We can also discuss what next steps should be taken.

The committee decided that there would be a statutory registration scheme. On that basis, the consultation paper was submitted to a number of interested organisations. It is a pity that the organisations have not confined themselves to the consultation paper, but have sought to persuade the committee to revisit its original decision. In my view, the decision to have a registration scheme has been taken. I would like the commercial lobbying organisations to work with us to ensure that the statutory registration scheme is all that we would like it to be. Although I understand that it would have implications for such organisations and that they are not very happy about it, I am disappointed that most responses are aimed at trying to get the committee to reconsider the decision that it has already taken.

There are a number of issues to which we should give careful consideration when taking the scheme forward, not least the definition of lobbying. Perhaps the committee needs to make its thinking on some issues clearer. I am happy to listen to the discussion that has taken place, but I am clear on the fact that the committee has already decided that there shall be a registration scheme. We now need to examine how that scheme can operate.

I concur with what Tricia Marwick has just said. I am keen that we move on from our decision to have a registration scheme to reconsider our definition of lobbying. However, we cannot renege on a decision that we have already taken.

I agree very strongly that there should be registration, so that our procedures are consistent with openness and transparency, which are among the founding principles of this Parliament. As the convener suggested, there might be a case for exempting charitable institutions and voluntary organisations. Perhaps we can tidy that up in the definition of lobbying.

Some voluntary organisations were worried that they might fall within the definition of lobbying because they receive subscriptions from their members. That is not the committee's intention.

I agree with what has been said. It is interesting that the response to the consultation has been disproportionate to our intention. That reveals as much as anything else. If we refine the definitions, which are fairly woolly, that might help. We could consider inviting people before the committee to give oral evidence.

I was going to ask members about that. The consultation is now at an end and all written evidence has been received. Do members regard that evidence as sufficient to allow the clerks to prepare a final paper on the matter, or do they believe that it would be useful to hear oral evidence from those involved?

I would like the clerks to produce a not-quite-final paper for us that would tie up some of the issues that are causing genuine concern both to those who have submitted evidence and to members of the committee. I am referring to issues such as the woolliness of the current definitions.

Once we get that paper, can we then consider whether we need to call for more oral evidence? If we are going to call for more oral evidence, it should be on the basis that the committee has decided that there will be a registration scheme and that we expect the evidence to be focused on set areas because we are not going to get into another discussion. The matter has taken many months of consultation in the first place; we are not about to revisit it. Anybody who comes to give us oral evidence should do so within the parameters that the committee sets down.

We are therefore focused on the practicalities of implementing a scheme, rather than discussing whether the scheme should be implemented. That is absolutely clear.

Absolutely.

If members are content in that case, the clerks have clear guidance—

I strongly support what Tricia Marwick said. The point should also be made that registration is in line with the procedures of other democratic parliaments and that it is not an innovation—it is a well-tried procedure.

I have a final comment to make. I find it disappointing that some of the organisations that have come out so strongly in recent weeks in their responses to the committee's consultation paper did not seek at any time to take part in the initial consultation. Their views might have been influential on the committee. It is disappointing that such responses came afterwards, because the organisations did not seek to engage with the committee when we were considering in the first place whether there should be a registration scheme.

I am just about to draw agenda item 2 on the lobbying process to a close. I welcome Kenneth Macintosh, who has arrived slightly late, and offer him the opportunity to comment on the paper. We have decided that the clerks should produce—to use Tricia Marwick's words—a "not-quite-final paper" on lobbying so that we can consider further the definitions. At that point we can decide whether we want to invite oral evidence, not on the principle of a registration scheme, but on the practicalities of implementing the scheme. Do you want to comment on that, Ken?

No—that is excellent. The paper seems to highlight some of the major concerns, but it also offers a way forward. I am happy with that course of action.