Official Report 187KB pdf
Item 3 on our agenda is amnesic shellfish poisoning. As members will recall, this item was on the agenda for last week's meeting. We conspired to delay discussion of it until Rhoda Grant and John Farquhar Munro had met the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs. Rhoda has produced a paper, which should have been circulated to members. We will take this opportunity to invite her to say a few words on it and on her experience of the meeting last week.
I want to clarify that Maureen Macmillan and I asked for a meeting with ministers because of constituents' concerns—the basis of the meeting was that it was between ministers, our constituents and ourselves. Needless to say, word got round the industry like wildfire and, even before we invited our constituents, we received representations from a number of people who wished to attend. Where we could, we tried to accommodate those representatives, as we felt that that was important. Unfortunately, we were unable to accommodate everyone, as numbers were limited in the small room that we had booked.
I understand that John Munro was present at the meeting as well. Is that the case?
Yes.
Do you have any comments about the meeting?
I was advised that the meeting seemed to be closed. As an intruder, I was not aware of that.
Do members have questions for Rhoda Grant or John Munro, or comments on the issues raised at last week's meeting?
I want to make a brief comment, although I could talk for a wee while about the background to the meeting that, apparently, Rhoda Grant and Maureen Macmillan organised. I have communicated with the minister since that meeting, which Fergus Ewing was not allowed into, and I am grateful to him for apologising for the confusion that arose. Many questions arise over the meeting itself.
Rhoda Grant's report says that
It was certainly mentioned that the FSA had been in contact with people in Ireland and that it had concerns about the regime there. However, it had not officially flagged up those concerns to the European Union; it wanted to pursue that line of action at some point, but not yet. It would be counterproductive for the FSA to tell the EU that the Irish are in the wrong and should be ruled out of order while asking for a similar derogation for Scotland.
On the instructions of the committee, I wrote to the relevant department in Ireland requesting further details. No reply has been forthcoming.
I have a quick question on the last paragraph of the paper. There was a suggestion in the meeting that white meat could be sold because of the low incidence of infection. The paper says that
The Food Standards Agency is of the opinion that it is complying with the regulations as it understands them. I asked why our Irish counterparts were able to put white meat on the market. The Food Standards Agency has questions about the legality of such sales. It is hoping to have a meeting with colleagues in Europe by the end of the month in order to clarify what is happening in relation to the Irish fishery. My point was that, if such activity is allowed in Ireland under the EU directive, it should also be allowed in Scotland. There are complications.
Was it the Food Standards Agency that did not want to go down that road?
The suggestion about selling the white meat was made by the scallop farming industry, which is unable to diversify—for the scallop farmers to be able to sell anything would alleviate their situation. The mobile fishermen in the scallop industry were not keen on that approach because they believe that the value of the white meat is less than that of the scallop. They thought that that approach would lead to over-fishing and low values and so did not see it as a solution. However, I have written to the minister to request that research be carried out into scallop farms selling white meat only. In that context it would be easy to license the industry and to monitor the areas. I am awaiting a response to that question.
It is my understanding that one of the major differences between the Irish industry and its testing methods and our industry and our testing methods is that in Ireland the scallops are washed before being tested. As far as I know, that does not happen in Scotland. That could account for the different approaches in Ireland and Scotland. Convener, I hope that you will press the Irish for a response. I want to check whether the difference is simply to do with washing scallops prior to testing. That is an important issue.
The question of dealing with processed scallops was mentioned at the meeting. The FSA told us that it was going to do some testing on processed scallops—washed and prepared scallops—to discover whether there was a difference in the testing results. Those experiments are on-going.
The FSA may be surprised.
Did its representatives say what would happen if it found, on testing, that the processed scallops were within the limits?
They did not. They have a proposal at the European Parliament to consider different ways of testing. I would assume that this information and the evidence, if they get it, will help them to get that proposal through.
The FSA assured me at a briefing two weeks ago in Aberdeen that washing the scallops had no impact whatever on the tests.
That is not the view of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation.
Was there any indication of a policy change on the part of the Executive at that meeting? From the report, there does not appear to have been, but I want that to be confirmed.
I think that the Executive's policy remains the same: it is striving to find a solution to the problem, as it reiterated strongly at the meeting. The reason for the existence of the Food Standards Agency is to remove such decisions from politicians, who come under pressure. The Executive was urging the Food Standards Agency to explore all angles.
I was speaking to Hamish Morrison of the Fishermen's Federation this morning. His point was, "The Food Standards Agency would say that, wouldn't it?" I am asking only that we consider the issue. I would like to ensure that we can put the matter to one side if it is not an issue, but it could be important.
Are there any further comments?
For starters, it might be appropriate for me to say something about the circumstances surrounding the meeting that took place last week, about which there has been some misunderstanding.
I can make a clarification on box J14. I think that the decision on that arose after a visit I made to Mallaig about two weeks ago. A fisherman, who was at sea at the time, made a call into the office when I happened to be there, saying that J14 was being fished by Irish boats but was closed to Scottish boats. I called the FSA straight away, telling it about that call. The FSA immediately agreed to charter a boat to test J14, given that one fleet was fishing there and one was not. The confusion arose because the boundary between the Scottish and Irish zones goes through J14. The clearance resulted from confusion because the Irish were able to fish areas—
With respect, I think that that is very unlikely. The Food Standards Agency gives advice to ministers on the basis of scientific advice rather than because of political pressure. I just thought that it would be worth conveying that little bit of good news to the committee.
If there are no further comments, we should go on to address one or two other matters. A meeting with the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs and the Minister for Health and Community Care has been tentatively arranged for Tuesday 7 November at 2 pm. Richard Lochhead has expressed the concern that that may not be soon enough. Does anyone else have views on that date?
We are also asking the Minister for Health and Community Care about rural dental care.
I will discuss with the clerks whether it will be possible to arrange that meeting for an earlier date. Given the additional information that we have received from John Munro, Rhoda Grant and the minister, are there any alternative views on how the meeting should be organised? Do members still wish to meet the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs and the Minister for Health and Community Care to discuss the issues surrounding amnesic shellfish poisoning?
We also need someone from the Food Standards Agency.
That arrangement is in hand. Members can take it as read that we will take further steps to find out from the Irish Government what is happening and to raise the specific points that Mike Rumbles mentioned. I thank the minister for his help on this and the previous item.