We are talking about debts that have been accrued through the public benefits system from, among other things, the roll-out of universal credit, so why on earth are Scottish National Party ministers seeking advice from a Government as reviled as the current Tory Government at Westminster is, in a policy area where that Government is wilfully impoverishing people, and why are they writing to ask for advice from Esther McVey—the very minister who is responsible for so much of the damage that is being done through the roll-out of universal credit?