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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 October 2025
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Displaying 1347 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 16 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

The issue for policy makers is that if we are looking to evaluate how the policy is working, we can only do so based on data. If we want to change policy because it is not working, it is very difficult if we do not have that information.

Our current difficulty as a Parliament is that we want to review the system and say that it would be better to do this or that, but we do not have the information to work with. That is what is lacking within Social Security Scotland.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Good morning. Thank you for coming. Before I move us on a wee bit, I am interested in returning to something that Lloyd Austin said in his previous answer, which is about spending more time scrutinising secondary legislation than primary legislation. We discussed that a wee bit last week. From a stakeholder perspective, how do you see that happening, and how would you like it to happen?

10:15  

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

I could change that.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Does anybody else want to come in on that point?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

That is helpful. I will briefly touch on one other point. When we have a framework bill, there are questions about how well we can scrutinise the financial implications of secondary legislation. Obviously, we would have a financial memorandum, which my colleague Roz McCall has pointed out. Does anyone have experience, either positive or negative, of making sure that what the Government has said that legislation will cost is delivered, at the expected price?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Thank you for that—it was helpful.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

It does.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

That is helpful.

We have already picked up on this, but I want to dig a wee bit deeper into the scrutiny of secondary legislation. One frustration of non-Government politicians is that they cannot amend secondary legislation—it is either a yes or a no. Last week, there was some talk, particularly from the academics, about devising a scheme of not necessarily amendments, but some kind of procedure whereby a committee or the Parliament could at least raise concerns and suggest how changes might be made. From a practical perspective, could that work in practice? Do you have experience of other jurisdictions that have that model?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

No, actually, it is a fair point to make. Parliament was set up on the presumption that members would lay aside their party politics and take much more of a scrutinising role as committee members, but I think that we have seen a change to that in the past 25 years.

I will move on, because I am conscious of time. One reason that the Scottish Government gives us for having framework bills is that much more scrutiny can be done once the bill has been passed—we can involve stakeholders, it can be co-designed, and all the other lingo that we use. Is that a reality for you? Would it be possible to do that heavy lifting—as Adam Stachura described it—before the legislation came to Parliament so that it could be put into primary legislation or is it easier to do it further down the road?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Thank you. I am conscious of the time, so I will leave it there.