May, you talked about ensuring that policies and procedures exist to ensure that organisations and individuals feel part of the process and accepted into it. If there are layers of adults who are trying to manage a child’s situation, what are the strengths or weaknesses of that in ensuring that the child feels that they are getting their information, that they are being listened to and are confident in how they are being communicated about?

Thank you for the information and answers that you have given. We have talked about the idea of trying to ensure that young people feel at ease and are part of the process.

Not just today but from other discussions, we have learned that a young person might have eight to 10 adult professionals working in support of them. That can be daunting for anybody at any age, far less a child. It would therefore be useful to get a flavour from you all of the strengths and weaknesses in the system at present, and of how that system can be adapted and supported to ensure that there is a better outcome, because we want to hear about the outcomes for the young people.

You have given examples of how you can facilitate some of that, but the basic outcome that the child wants is to be listened to, to have that acted on, to be supported and, potentially, to be protected. What strengths and weaknesses in the system need to be looked at to achieve that goal for the young people concerned?

Alistair, I come to you first, given the generations of experience that your organisation has on all those matters.

Thank you for your comments so far. You have both touched on children being overlooked and disregarded in the process and you have both talked about the role of the child welfare reporter. That approach is seen as the future method of supporting children and providing balance, but do you believe that it will do that? It is about giving individual children the opportunity to express their views, but is it possible that the required relationship will still not be there? How will child welfare reporters build the relationship?

What I have heard from both of you today is that it is about confidence—it is about the child feeling confident and that they have been given a chance to express their views. It appears that, in the past, those views have been disregarded or ignored. If we are putting a lot of emphasis on the child welfare reporter, what needs to happen to ensure that the approach is successful and that there is progress? Without that, we will be back to where we started.

Sarah, do you have any other comments on bringing different professions to the process?

Jordan, you talked about trying to facilitate, and there is no question but that you are doing that. However, are there any areas that you could enhance or where you have already identified a weakness or blind spot?

Local authorities’ spending per head on cultural attractions varies greatly across Scotland. Even before the pandemic, Clackmannanshire, which is in my region, had one of the lowest spends per head in the country, at just £2.01 in 2019-20. What action will be taken to support the cultural sector in Clackmannanshire, to ensure that it makes a strong recovery from the pandemic?

I am very pleased to open this stage 1 debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. The Miners’ Strike (Pardons) (Scotland) Bill will be an importantf would say piece of legislation for many people, not just for what it seeks to do but for what it symbolises. The bill is an opportunity to take a significant step towards providing much-needed closure, not only for the individuals concerned but for the families and communities that were affected across Scotland. For that reason, the Scottish Conservatives will support the general principles of the bill at decision time this evening.

Alongside fellow members of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, I have listened to swathes of evidence that make it clear how much the bill is required. I take the opportunity to thank the many witnesses who have provided evidence to the committee over the preceding months. I acknowledge the opportunity that I had this morning, along with my committee colleague Pam Gosal, to meet members of the National Union of Mineworkers and their families.

The journey to this stage of proceedings started nearly four years ago, when the independent review was commissioned. The scale of the public response to the review led to it being delayed twice. It was not until late 2020 that the independent review published its recommendation that a pardon be provided through an act of the Scottish Parliament. Our committee has since devoted considerable time to the issue throughout the current session of Parliament, and it is important that we are now debating a bill in the chamber today.

Although I and other committee members have spent months preparing and scrutinising the bill, there are many people who have waited nearly four decades to finally receive some level of closure on this issue. We are all familiar with the statistics. Around 1,350 arrests were made during the miners strike of 1984-85, with around 400 of those leading to convictions. However, those of us who witnessed the strikes know that mere statistics do not come close to capturing the turbulent times that we witnessed or how deeply the strikes scarred not just individuals but whole communities.

The pardon that the bill seeks to provide will not right every wrong of the past, but it will come close to ensuring that there is some closure. It is important that we pass the bill, because it is a meaningful step in the right direction, and I welcome that. Although the bill may be quite small, there are no doubt several aspects of it that require further debate.

One of the key issues of the debate has been whether the scope of what is offered under section 2 is wide enough. It is important to ensure that a pardon is granted where it would be appropriate. However, as with all legislation, a delicate balance is required. To that end, I welcome the cabinet secretary’s commitment to take a cautious approach to considering any extension to the offences that are listed under section 2.

Although it is important to specify which offences fall within the scope of the bill, it is also important that we set out where the offences took place. As it stands, some of the language in section 1 requires clarity. I hope that the Scottish Government and the cabinet secretary will look at that as the bill progresses.

The Law Society of Scotland has pointed out that the inclusion of terms such as

“picket, demonstration, or other similar gathering”

to describe the settings in which offences took place risks undermining the purpose of the bill and could lead to certain individuals mistakenly believing that they will be issued with a pardon. Therefore, it is important that all that is considered as the bill progresses to stage 2.

I also acknowledge that there have been multiple calls for compensation payments to be included as part of the bill’s provisions, and I have no doubt that those calls will continue to be made as we progress. However, on that issue, I highlight the findings of the committee’s stage 1 report, which concluded that including a compensation scheme in the bill would risk delaying its passage, which is the last thing that we want to do. A fair compensation scheme would likely require the creation of an independent scheme. The operation of such a scheme would depend on historical evidence, which is pretty patchy and incomplete, because time has moved on. As they should, discussions regarding compensation for the events of 1984-85 will no doubt continue to take place, and we will look at that as the bill goes forward. As I stated earlier, the bill has been a long time in coming, so any further delay would be regrettable.

The Scottish Conservatives support the general principles of the bill. From John Scott QC’s independent review, it is clear that, in some circumstances, there was justification for the crimes that related to the miners strike, so, in our approach to the pardon, it is correct for us to look at those circumstances, while ensuring that certain criteria are met. The details of those criteria will need to be looked at as the bill progresses to stages 2 and 3.

I look forward to the opportunity to scrutinise any amendments to ensure that the bill serves its purpose, follows its course and is not interrupted. I look forward to the next stages of the bill, because it is very important to many individuals and communities.

You identify that it is about trying to capture people’s lived experience and ensuring that that is fed through. The length and transparency of funding has always been, and continues to be, a slight issue for many organisations and individuals. It is important that that is captured and that a process is put in place that supports organisations and individuals to ensure that they get funding and are able to plan how to deal with the short and medium term. Are there other ways in which the Government has managed to identify lived experience and ensure that it is involved in the budget process?

As you have identified, it is about being creative. There is no one-size-fits-all in this area, and everyone has a contribution to make.

The equality budget advisory group has made some recommendations. Where are we with that? Has the Government taken them on? How are the group’s recommendations filtering through?

Good morning, minister. I am delighted to see you here.

One area that has continued to progress is improved transparency on, and public participation in, budget processes in relation to equality. It would be good to get an update from you about how things are developing.

It is important that we continue to build capacity. In the past, we have talked about capacity and about ministers and officials ensuring that Scottish budget spend advances and tackles some of the equality and human rights issues facing the Scottish population. It would be good to get a view on where we are with that. I am aware that there has been some progress, but Covid has had an impact, and it would be good to get a sense of how we are managing to capture that and whether there are areas that still require a bit more attention.