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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 28 June 2025
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Displaying 793 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Good morning to the minister and her colleagues. I am fairly new to this committee and, although this is not the first time that I have seen this proposal, I have not looked at it in this depth of detail and was not here for the previous discussions.

Michael Marra has rightly said that, for all the value that this brings, it still has to be paid for. I am not sure of the exact wording that you used, but I think that you hinted at or suggested other ways of generating revenue. Does that mean having to introduce new taxes, increase taxes, bring in new fees or whatever to pay for taking this forward, if the costs are higher than expected?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

You have said that, for the chain that you represent, Glasgow is actually okay at the moment, but for other areas it will be different.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Okay.

My last question was on the potential VAT liability, about which concerns were raised. Can you give us an update on where that stands at the moment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

That figure was originally estimated to be around £32 million; is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

You also talked about infrastructure. We have seen uncertainty about the A9 and it has been a disastrous summer for a lot of island communities because of the ferries. Even some of the mainland Highland ferries, such as the Corran ferry, have been out. I met people on the Ardnamurchan peninsula who are wondering whether they can keep their businesses going. How do you get the message across to Government at ministerial level—in order to influence budget decisions—that infrastructure, and particularly transport infrastructure, is vital?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Michael Marra rightly suggested that a number of areas have not been fully considered in the bill. The original financial memorandum estimated the costs of the bill over the five years between 2022-23 and 2026-27 as being between £644 million and £1,261 million. Are those still the estimates, or are the figures considerably higher?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I get the points that have been made, but you would have to go to people in the Highlands and Islands and say to them that more power needs to be in Edinburgh. Nobody wants to make that argument. In fact, in the Highlands, Inverness is seen as the great collector of power. It is really difficult to strike the balance.

I want to come back to Rachel Cook’s point about the rural aspect. We have talked about business confidence being low across the UK, but your focus was on that being the case in Scotland. I wonder whether there are regional differences, as well.

I represent the Highlands and Islands. Small businesses are absolutely vital—they are the lifeblood of communities across the region. Is there a difference between business confidence there and that in other parts of Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Louise, for full transparency, I note that I was in one of your establishments only a week or so ago. Having been bought a gin and tonic, I feel slightly seen by your Pat Butcher comment. [Laughter.] The place was fantastic and it was very well looked after, but it was quieter than I would expect in Edinburgh on a Saturday evening. I know from speaking to other people in the sector that there is real pressure on our town centres and that our city centres are not as busy as they have been. There has been behavioural change among a lot of people.

Michelle Thomson and I were both on the Economy and Fair Work Committee, which produced a report recently on town centres. It was interesting to hear some of the proposed solutions and suggestions on what we need to be doing. The sector has dealt with a pandemic; there has been uncertainty about the deposit return scheme, and investment has been needed in relation to that; and legislation on other matters has been rolled out, such as the ultra-low emission zone in Glasgow.

How difficult is it for the sector to forward plan? Given the changes in approach—the UK Government is providing a discount for hospitality—how are you positioned compared with similar organisations in other parts of the UK?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Jamie Halcro Johnston

It will perhaps be lower over that period, but do you expect it to be higher going forward?