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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 February 2026
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Displaying 1117 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I said “siloed”, but I perhaps should have said that it is more that departments are focused on their own areas. Thank you.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

That is not what I said.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I admire your dancing around the issue, but I think that we should save that for Hogmanay.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

There is no plan, is there?

11:00  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

There is no secret plan?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

So, nothing else. Okay.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I will finish, then. That was all that I wanted to establish. It seems to have amused SNP colleagues around the table. However, I think that those who voted for them or those passionate nationalists who will be watching this committee—I do not understand why they are passionate nationalists but I understand their passion in their country—will be slightly concerned that, having been told by the SNP that there was some sort of great strategy or plan, there is not one. The minister has confirmed that, so I will leave it at that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I certainly agree with my friend and colleague Stephen Kerr. I know that Mr Brown will be shocked by that, but the inquiry has been a bit of a damp squib because we have essentially been told what we already know. There have certainly been some useful clarifying points from some of the experts, particularly on the fact that, as Mr Kerr pointed out, this is a political matter.

Cabinet secretary, before I ask my question, I want to pick you up on some of the things that you have said so far. First, on your points about independence parties, a majority for independence and a mandate, I note that, going into the previous election, both Lorna Slater, who is the co-leader of the Greens, and Nicola Sturgeon, for the SNP, suggested that those who voted for those parties could still be against independence but their vote would not be counted. That rather puts into question the idea that a majority of the public voting for those parties is a pure mandate for independence.

The argument that the better together campaign promised staying in the EU is a false one. It has been repeated, but how it has been perceived by SNP politicians has been proved to be false. What the better together campaign said was quite simple. It said that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote no, because voting yes would mean that we would leave a member state of the EU and, therefore, that we would leave the EU. That was clarified in a letter from the European Commission to a committee of this Parliament.

On the point about our being taken out of the EU against our will, I voted remain, but my will was that the result was honoured. Across the United Kingdom, the vote was to leave, so we left. In the same way, had Scotland voted in 2014 to leave the UK, I would have wanted to see that honoured, despite the fact that, as you will appreciate—I am sure that it will come as no shock to you—I voted to stay in the UK.

Independence is not a priority for the public. I think that it was shown to be the public’s seventh or eighth priority, and it may even be a lower priority than that. There is not a clamour for independence or another independence referendum at the moment.

I am sure that you will want to readdress some of those points, but I will ask my question. At the SNP conference earlier this year, John Swinney highlighted that there was a plan—it has been described as a secret plan—to deliver independence. It was the former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon who suggested that it was a “secret plan”. Can you give us details of that? Can you tell us whether such a plan exists?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Well, I am asking you, because you are giving evidence to us.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I will just add one point that is almost in line with that, which Mr Mackie could perhaps answer. It is not always a question of UK Government departments ignoring Scotland and Scottish issues; some of the big UK Government departments ignore other UK Government departments, because they are so siloed and so focused on their own areas. Is that an issue or an excuse that you accept?