Chamber and committees

To be fair, cabinet secretary, you probably will not find over-70s from the African community in nightclubs, either, but their vaccination rate is 20 per cent lower than the average. We are not going to have a meeting of minds. I do not believe that you had the evidence that you suggested you had three weeks ago. You are backfilling that evidence now to establish the need for vaccination passports. That is the point that I am making.

I have a quick follow-up question. A key element of COP26 will be the fringe events, at which delegates might interact with those who are not delegates and therefore might not have gone through that stringent testing procedure. What consideration has the Government given to putting in place safety protocols in that respect?

In a similar vein, the Scottish Government has told us that, in essence, vaccination passports are being introduced to drive people’s behaviour towards getting vaccinated. However, the hospitality sector has indicated an inequality in that respect. It is concerned that if venues offer similar services but have a different designation, the public will be driven away from places that require a vaccination passport and towards those that do not.

I will ask Mr Gowans to comment on that first, given that he was last to respond to my previous question.

I will start by reiterating the concern that there has been a lack of meaningful consultation prior to the decision to implement the scheme. Witnesses have also talked about the case having yet to be demonstrated in the public domain. My concern, of course, is that the evidence does not actually exist.

Looking through some of the papers, I note that one of the biggest disparities in vaccination uptake relates to ethnicity, and that there is significantly less uptake among the black, Asian and minority ethnic community than there is among majority of our population. Do you think that that has been taken into consideration? Will the vaccination passport tackle the concern about ethnicity? My view is that the Government’s plan to increase vaccination uptake will likely incentivise only those who frequent the likes of nightclubs and football stadiums, and that it will continue to drive that inequality in our society. I ask Professor Montgomery to start on that.

I have one brief final question. The Ada Lovelace submission suggests that the Scottish Government has a responsibility to

“protect against errors, harm and discrimination”.

We all recognise that the introduction of new technology needs a lead time ahead of going live to protect against those issues and against data breaches. There is a distinct lack of time and preparation here. Should that concern us?

I put that question to Professor Montgomery, as it relates to his submission.

I will follow on from Mr Fairlie’s questions on COP26. One of the things that we learned from the European championships was that a balance has to be struck between risk and benefit. We recognise that bringing together people from different countries will significantly increase infection rate, and COP26 will be an even more significant risk, given the number of countries that are involved. Will Mr Matheson comment on the evidence on that balance between safety and benefit? Is it the Government’s intention to publish the evidence?

The Scottish Government’s proposals indicate that regulations will impose a legal obligation on the person responsible for operating the business, who must “take all reasonable measures” to restrict entry only to those who are fully vaccinated. How, from a legal perspective, do you define “reasonable measures”, given that the venues that we are discussing are so wide and varied?

I think that you need to have a word with your colleague, because the rule for the premier league is that all clubs need to have a 10,000 capacity all-seated stadium before they can—[Interruption.] Is that not the case any more? There you go. I have learned something new today. I thank the cabinet secretary for that.

I have one more question. Earlier, the representative from the hospitality industry indicated that there is a potential inequality because people will choose venues based on whether they will need to produce a vaccination passport. Nights out often involve multiple venue visits. Do you recognise that there is a potential inequality regarding where people will choose to have a night out?

Mr Doncaster, you have suggested that your preference in the first phase would be for spot checks in order to put less pressure on stewards and to ensure that you can put in place what needs to be in place. Given the Government’s current position that this will be a digital initiative and that the system will need to be able to read QR codes, what will be the cost implication of that on clubs? After all, this will affect not just the big clubs, because when those big clubs visit the smaller clubs, the crowd will inevitably be larger than 10,000. Is there a disparity or, if you like, an inequality with regard to the ability to put these measures in place?