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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 October 2025
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Displaying 819 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 29 June 2023

Brian Whittle

I will go back to something that you said, Mr Ferris, about encouraging people from overseas to come and work here. You said that we had brought in 50 Polish dentists. I have a moral issue with that in that we are sucking talent from everywhere else and, while we are doing that, we are allowing our own talent to leave or to work privately and not in NHS dentistry. Do you see what I am getting at? Should we not focus more on how we retain our own talent within NHS dentistry?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 29 June 2023

Brian Whittle

Minister, it does not matter how many dentists are in training. If they do not want to go into NHS dentistry, it will make no difference whatsoever. Over and above that, we have heard that a lot of dentists’ staff are moving to private practice, purely for financial reasons because private practice can pay more.

We have to understand what the problem is before we can fix it. My concern is that we are hearing one side of the argument, and then what we hear from you differs so much from that that I am not sure what the reality is, although I am not sure what my colleagues think.

We have heard that the NHS is under huge pressure across the board, and dentistry seems to be at the worst end of that. It is to the point where someone said that it is in danger of falling over. We have to accept what the reality is. You talk about the idea that we need more dentists, but what we need is more NHS dentists. How do we get more NHS dentists to practice?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 29 June 2023

Brian Whittle

I have a final question. We have heard not only that there can be a long delay in getting payment for treatments that have been done but that some treatments on the NHS actually cost the dentist money to deliver. Are you looking at that issue?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

Good morning, gentlemen. You have answered quite a lot of the questions that I was going to ask. What is really worrying, especially on the preventative side of things, is the inequality in the service, which we heard about last week, and how that affects Scottish index of multiple deprivation areas 1 and 2, as compared with the more affluent areas. What were your experiences of that during Covid? Why does there seem to be an increasing disparity?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

How do we do that?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

Is it not high volume, low margin?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

Do not confuse me—I am easily confused.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

I am sorry, but could you explain what you mean by taking things out that are not required?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

I have so many more questions, but there is no time.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Recovery of NHS Dental Services

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Brian Whittle

Just to clarify, I guess that the outcome of that is an increased number of children being referred to secondary care for extractions and the like, which is obviously more time consuming and more costly, and puts people back on the treadmill. That is the word that will stick with me from this evidence session.

This committee is called the COVID-19 Recovery Committee. You are painting a realistic, if reasonably bleak, picture of Scottish dentistry. David McColl said that we will not get out of the situation under the current system. The backlog will not be dealt with under the current system. Just for my personal understanding, I ask again: where do we need to go and what needs to happen to get us out of this situation and back on to a reasonable path?