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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 January 2026
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Displaying 6954 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Do you have any evidence to suggest that, in the past, someone with three or four dogs has broken the current regulation and used rough shooting as a reason?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Yes. That seems to be in direct contrast with what the minister said at stage 1. She said that it is about people being in charge of only two dogs and that it is not about the number of shooters. We will maybe come back to that, under enforcement.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

We will move on. The minister said:

“the two dog limit does not necessarily mean that not more than two dogs can be present at a rough shoot.”

We understand that. However, the minister went on to state that the bill would apply to each individual person using dogs to hunt quarry as part of a rough shoot in which wild mammals or rabbits were shot. Does that apply to shooters or those who are in control of and own the dogs that are flushing? Who are the hunters? Does the term “hunter” apply only to the person who shoots the wild mammal, or does it apply to those who are in control of the dogs?

That is what makes the bill completely unclear. The difficulty is that that information is not in the bill—it would need to come forward as guidance. If the guidance is based on what we have heard this morning, it will be incredibly confusing.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

We will move on to enforcement and loopholes.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Okay.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

United Kingdom Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Our next item of business is consideration of a consent notification relating to a UK statutory instrument. As members have no comments on the notification, are we content to agree with the Scottish Government’s decision to consent to the provisions that are set out in the notification being included in UK rather than Scottish subordinate legislation?

Members indicated agreement.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

That is not what you suggested in response to Mercedes Villalba. You suggested that a driven shoot would come under the bill in a different way from a rough shoot. Maybe I misunderstood.

10:45  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

That flies in the face of what the minister has said. If there are four people with eight dogs, does that mean that each of the four guns must shoot only the animals that two dogs have flushed? There could be eight dogs with four handlers and two shooters. Does that make it illegal? From what you have suggested, it would. If that is the case, that would make rough shooting illegal because that is what happens in most cases.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Petition

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

It is my understanding that the commission will come to a decision by next February. Initially, I was disappointed with the lack of progress by the commission, given that we had written on two occasions to get a response. However, the response might well give us reassurance that it is taking the issue seriously and will consider all the options and consequences of an outright ban or a licensing scheme. I think that waiting until February would certainly give us the information that we need to take the matter further.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

On that basis, is it intended through the bill to ultimately or effectively ban or prevent rough shooting, as you have described it?