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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 October 2025
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Displaying 504 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Oliver Mundell

I want to ask about two specific examples, the first of which concerns regional improvement collaboratives. I hear that, even in quite large areas, many small rural schools feel that they are pushed out of decision making when it comes to setting priorities and the agenda of the collaborative. Staff in those schools find it hard to participate because no one is available to cover their absence while they are taking part, and they feel that their interests are not heard. It is not that they think that the priorities are wrong; it is just that the priorities inevitably tend to gravitate towards what larger schools in urban centres are saying. They would say that they have more commonality with similar schools in other areas but, because of how the collaboratives are set up, there is not always the chance for the national issues that affect small and rural schools across Scotland, who form a community of interest, to be aired in the regional collaboratives. Do you recognise that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 April 2022

Oliver Mundell

I will ask one last question. Do you think that using low-income households as the criteria for distributing funding—the Scottish Government uses that approach in other policies now—would be a potential replacement? That certainly appears to pick up more poverty in rural areas. I see that Andrea Bradley is nodding.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 April 2022

Oliver Mundell

Thank you. That is all very helpful. I want to ask about the small group of schools—it has become smaller again—that do not receive any PEF money at all. When I look at the list, I am not convinced that no young people at those schools would be in poverty. I wonder whether the policy can be fully effective when some headteachers and some schools—many of which are small, rural schools—receive no PEF money at all. I guess that Greg Dempster or Jim Thewliss would be best placed to respond.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 April 2022

Oliver Mundell

My main line of questioning goes back to Jim Thewliss’s point that there are 32 different models across the country. I am particularly concerned about schools in rural areas, where the same suite of options is often not available to headteachers or even to local authorities. Do you recognise that that is a challenge, given that there are not the same third-sector providers or opportunities on schools’ doorsteps and that smaller schools often have smaller PEF budgets and therefore less flexibility?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 April 2022

Oliver Mundell

Do the other witnesses recognise that? If a headteacher has a small PEF budget but there are only limited resources to tap into in the immediate community, does that prevent the policy from working as well as it might?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 April 2022

Oliver Mundell

Following on from Graeme Dey’s line of questioning, I think that the obvious thing to say is that there is a gap because schools are not always properly funded. I would not want to defend attainment funding being spent on other things, but schools that I see locally do not always have a choice. Keeping staff on is a priority for headteachers. Do you agree with that, Mr Dempster?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Oliver Mundell

I want to go back briefly to the SQA. Professor Muir has said that problems in the SQA were becoming visible before Covid. Does it undermine trust in Scottish education when the person with ministerial oversight continued to say, right up until June 2021, that they had full confidence in that organisation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Oliver Mundell

Do you have confidence that the Government has taken the message on board? Should it have taken an OECD review and your report for the Government to recognise the significant issues?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Oliver Mundell

Would that not take us back to before the OECD report and your report, which, in some respects, have already set us off in a direction? Would it not be a more genuine offer to teachers and front-line practitioners to say that we value their input from the start, rather than to put so many pieces in place and then say that we need to have a conversation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education Reform

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Oliver Mundell

That gets to the nub of the issue. We have brought in the OECD to work to a very restricted remit, and the Scottish Government brought you in, but neither you nor the OECD have really felt able to challenge the culture at the heart of the Scottish Government. The lack of ministerial oversight has allowed the issues that you identified to continue for five years, when Opposition parties across the Parliament have been calling for an independent inspectorate and raising concerns about leadership at the SQA. We have seen continued reboots of curriculum for excellence, but nothing seems to have changed. What makes you confident that this time is going to be any different?