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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 July 2025
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Displaying 825 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Sustainable Food Supply

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

Will the member give way on that point?

Meeting of the Parliament

Sustainable Food Supply

Meeting date: 18 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

I enjoyed the start of the member’s speech more than this section.

Does she agree that there is absolutely no reason why we are not building enough houses in rural Scotland, which has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

The policy concern stems partly from the fact that lots of people who interact with trusts might not be familiar with the law and court proceedings. I guess that the point is that, if someone was looking at taking on responsibilities for a small charitable trust or interacting with a trust of relatively modest size, the fact that they might become personally liable could put them off.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

I will ask a final question about something that I have thought of as you have been answering questions. Would there be merit in putting in the bill an exemption from personal liability when people act in a charitable capacity or when a trust is relatively modest?

11:45  

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

Do you expect that there will be more legal action as a result of the bill or could the bill reduce the amount of litigation? Is there sufficient capacity in the sheriff court to deal with such cases?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

To be absolutely clear, it is a deliberate approach.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

Thank you for that. I will also ask about the role of the Court of Session compared with that of local sheriff courts. I know that there are some expanded powers for sheriff courts. Will you explain the policy thinking around retaining the Court of Session as the main court for the bill, given that it is traditionally more expensive and less geographically accessible?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

The submission is on the Parliament’s website, but I am sure that the committee clerks would be happy to send it to you. I am sure that, like me, the committee would be interested if you wanted to review the Law Society’s points. Having seen many Law Society submissions on various bills, I think that its comments on section 65 seem quite strong. We would greatly appreciate any feedback that you have.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

I want to ask about litigation expenses and, in particular, the Law Society’s concerns about section 65. The Law Society was quite outspoken on that, citing

“a severe danger of a conflict of interest”

and describing section 65 as

“quite a radical provision”,

which, it suggested, may deter people from becoming trustees or lead them to unfavourably settle or to abandon legal proceedings for fear of personal liability. Do you have any comments in response?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Oliver Mundell

You would recognise the risk for parliamentarians and the Parliament in seeking to proceed with the legislation. If you read its submission as a whole, the Law Society is generally quite discursive about the bill. When I see words like

“severe danger of a conflict of interest”,

“radical provision” and “real issues”, it starts to worry me that the balance might not be quite right.

The Law Society also points out that non-recovery is a standard risk of litigating. I am thinking of examples where people take on roles in charitable trusts, not expecting that their personal property might be at risk if they proceed with litigation. I hear what you are saying about what the court “may” do, but if someone is taking legal advice it should be clear that there will always be a risk associated with that. I am just trying to satisfy myself that the bill strikes the right balance.