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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 825 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

More broadly, though, it is not the Scottish Government’s position to move towards as much codification within the civil law as possible.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

I have a question on charitable trusts. Some of the legal stakeholders, including the Law Society, have expressed surprise that chapter 5 of the bill, which concerns how long trusts will last in practice, does not apply to charitable trusts. Having heard the comments on this topic, do you think that there is a case for reconsidering the exclusion of charitable trusts from the scope of chapter 5?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

Does the Government does not have any strong views beyond what the SLC has stated?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

So you do not think that the benefits would outweigh the negatives.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

I am interested in the point that Michael Paparakis made about there being relatively few cases at the moment. Clearly, the bill envisages a greater role for courts in the administration of trusts. There will be several new opportunities to involve the court in trust matters. Does that give a greater reason to expand the options for people?

On the point about some of the evidence that we have heard about court costs, there is certainly a public perception—including on the part of many people involved with trusts—that the sheriff court could be a more expensive route. If the bill goes ahead, what do you plan to do to publicise information on the likely costs of going to the sheriff court?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

Briefly, convener. I had planned to ask about the codification of trust law later, but would you rather that I asked about that now?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

In the same evidence session, we also heard concerns that people might try to draft around the provision or include clauses to create the flexibility to make changes outwith that period. Multiple witnesses at that session seemed to agree that that would not be desirable. Do you take that point on board?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

Thank you.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

Coming back to the points that your officials have made, minister, do you think that this has been a missed opportunity? Some people have been in touch with the committee to say that there could have been a wholesale codification of trust law. Given that we have not had major legislation in this area for a long time and that the bill has come to the Parliament through the SLC process, I imagine that it is unlikely that the Parliament will legislate on trusts on this scale for years. Have we missed the opportunity to do that codification exercise?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Oliver Mundell

That would be helpful. It feeds into a wider issue—one which will potentially be referenced in other questions—about how people navigate the legislation, bearing in mind that a lot of the individuals who interact with it are not going to be legal professionals. Many people put themselves forward for smaller charitable trusts to try and do something good for society, and having clear advice and guidance for them on how legislation affects them would be useful.

You say that you do not expect an increase in litigation. However, the bill creates a lot of new opportunities for the courts to get involved in trusts, so it is hard to see how there would not be an increase in cases. What is your analysis based on?