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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 June 2025
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Displaying 1578 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

So, a small proportion of schools have a separate, dedicated provision, rather than mainstreaming additional support for learning assistance.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

Does every secondary school in Scotland have someone who supports children with their mental health? Is there a qualified, dedicated mental health support contact—not a teacher—in every secondary school in Scotland?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

That is very helpful. Laura, did you want to come in?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

Yes. The Morgan review picked up on that—it said that other vocational destinations should be seen as positive outcomes as well when measuring like for like. That is a very good point.

Mr Rennick, your department covers education and justice, I believe.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

You should try it.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

There is access.

We are very short on time. My last question is on page 3 of the Audit Scotland briefing, which gives a statistic for dedicated ASL provision. It is quite a low statistic, which is why I am asking about it. It says that 20 per cent of all schools—about 460—have “dedicated” ASL provision, to use the terminology of the briefing. However, that seems a very low number of schools when, presumably, the need for ASL is prevalent in all schools. Talk me through that.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

The one area that we do not really have time to address, but which deserves more time, is how we support teachers and schools to deliver on this agenda. We are very short on time, but I will ask Mr Rennick a question. In 2021, the Scottish Government made an explicit and overt commitment to increase the number of teachers by 3,500 by the end of this parliamentary session, and, in particular, the number of pupil support assistants by 500. Could you give us a progress update on that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

Thank you for raising the Hayward review.

All three reviews—the Morgan, the Muir and the Hayward reviews—are helpful, but, next month, it will be five years since the Morgan review was published. There is therefore a sense of frustration that only 53 of the 76 recommendations have been implemented. It is taking a long time. The fact that we have also known that the problem has been on the increase for a long time has perhaps driven some of the lines of questioning this morning.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

They are, but 27 per cent of pupils in East Lothian are designated as having additional support needs because of behavioural difficulties, and we know that violence in classrooms is on the increase and has been for a number of years. I appreciate that the majority of pupils go to school and behave well, and are brought up well—I understand that. However, in this case, we are looking at ASL, and there is clearly a category of people who are struggling.

That leads to outcomes, the work on which by Audit Scotland I am intrigued by. We know that pupils with additional support needs have lower attendance rates and higher exclusion rates, and there is a 20 per cent gap in curriculum for excellence level outcomes, as well as lower positive destination rates. Those pupils are performing poorly on a number of metrics, and that cannot be acceptable, can it?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Jamie Greene

Is that not an interesting point? I am looking at the table that Mr Beattie provided, which relates to just one council. I appreciate that every council will have different pressure points, but young people who have a social, emotional or behavioural difficulty make up the largest group in the ASL category. One can only assume that the steady rise in that percentage in the past five to 10 years—it is probably a long-term trend—has taken place because, when there is a decline in discipline outside the school environment, in the home environment in particular, that behaviour translates into the school environment.

Pupils who are experiencing wider societal or emotional difficulties in the home environment or in social environments are bringing that into the classroom. There is only so much that a teacher can do in that respect. If public agencies or touch points of public services are letting those families down, are we not fighting a losing battle in the education environment? That is the point that I am trying to make.