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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 2137 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Good morning to all our guests. I will start with some practical questions. When was the last time that UHI Perth either financially broke even or made a surplus?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Did it break even, or, if there was a surplus, what was it?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

In your opening remarks, you made it clear, as you have in the past, that there has been what one might call record, or increased, funding for health—I guess that it depends on how you quantify it and over which period of time—with health spending by the Government 25 per cent higher in real terms than it was 10 years ago. One could argue that it is a good thing that the Government is spending more money on the health service but, in the same breath, you said that the outcomes are not necessarily matching the extra spend.

I do not know whether any analysis has been undertaken of what is driving that or what we might need to change. I will not ask you to delve into policy changes—I understand why you would not want to do that—but I am interested in what was said earlier about the disparity between the performances of health boards. I will come on to levels of intervention in a second, but I note that exhibit 1 paints a complex picture of how the funding is allocated and spent through the territorial boards, the national boards and the complicated integration authority structure. Is that complexity part of the problem?

11:45  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Thank you. That sounded very positive and was very helpful.

I have read all the board minutes that have been supplied to us, particularly those from 2024, and I was a bit surprised by their tone. I could almost imagine myself in the room with some of those people—it did not seem like a happy board, in any way, shape or form. First of all, then, what is the current state of play with the board at UHI Perth? My interpretation of the board members’ input is that a lot of contrary views and opinions were being expressed on pretty much everything, even by the chair.

I refer you to the minutes of the 23 October 2024 board meeting. A couple of things struck me about them, the first of which was a quote from the chair that I will ask for your opinion on in a moment. The minutes say:

“Chair ... noted that the College makes money from FE and loses in HE, but there is no breakdown of these figures”,

so the provenance of that conclusion and how it was reached is unclear. The chair then asked:

“if the College are not making money from HE why are we doing it?”

That is my question to you today.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I wish you luck.

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I will carry on with the line of questioning about the state of the finances of NHS boards. As you have already noted, a number of them have received considerable amounts of brokerage. Just for the benefit of the public out there, what exactly is brokerage and how does it work?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Since then, it has reported a deficit every year. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

It surely cannot be good for the delivery of quality local education in Perth and Kinross.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Out of how many, roughly?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

While you are looking, I simply note that I am trying to get my head around the effect that that has had on the volume of teaching that is taking place.

I will come on to look specifically at courses that have been cut shortly, but I can see why there has been so much adverse reaction locally and nationally. The situation has caught the eye of not only auditors but the sector more widely. If you lose 100 staff, it sounds like you are also losing a lot of teaching. Again, in what way is that a good thing?