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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
Welcome back to the Public Audit Committee. Item 3 is consideration of our inquiry into the Cairngorm funicular railway. I extend a warm welcome to our three witnesses this morning. Nick Kempe is a campaigner and mountaineer, Gordon Bulloch is a former environmental land remediation and business turnaround manager, and Dave Morris is a Cairn Gorm and international mountain expert. All three gentlemen are members of Parkswatch Scotland. Correct me if I have any of that wrong.
Before we get into questions from committee members, I invite Nick Kempe to make a short opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
In your comments, Carole, it would be helpful if you could tell us what conversations you had with the Scottish Government, including any directorate or sponsorship team members, in advance of the production of the section 22 report, so that we get a feel for what the Government’s response was to the questions that you put to it.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
That sounds like a series of events that we might wish to dig into further.
My understanding is that the framework agreement between Historic Environment Scotland and the Scottish Government was renewed at some point in the calendar year 2025. Is that correct?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
Was that a permanent accountable officer or an interim?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
Is Audit Scotland satisfied with the framework agreement or did you have any comments or recommendations on it?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
We will refer to it under that umbrella phrase for the purpose of this meeting.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 22 report into the 2024-25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland.
I welcome our witnesses. Stephen Boyle is the Auditor General for Scotland and Lisa Duthie and Carole Grant are both audit directors at Audit Scotland.
Before members get into their lines of questioning, I invite the Auditor General to make a short opening statement on his report.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
In your professional opinion, was the move from green to amber to red a result of a lack of action or response to issues that the sponsorship team flagged? Or was it perhaps a result of issues within the sponsorship division in relation to the way in which it oversees or governs the body? Or perhaps the blame lies in both lobbies.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
Just for the record, I can reassure committee members that agenda item 5, which we will take in private, will be looking at next steps on how we may garner more information from either Historic Environment Scotland or the Scottish Government and the opportunities that are open to us to do so. We will discuss those later in the meeting, in particular around some of the areas that Mr Simpson has asked Audit Scotland about. Obviously, we will let you know if there is anything of interest, Auditor General.
I now invite Joe FitzPatrick to ask some questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 14 January 2026
Jamie Greene
We will backtrack a smidge. There are one or two technical issues that I would like to clarify with you while you are here, if you do not mind, Auditor General.
I am not sure whether Audit Scotland followed the evidence session on Historic Environment Scotland that was held by the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee on 6 November 2025. I am sure that you paid attention to it. Some comments were made during that meeting that I would like to reflect on here, and I will ask you for your opinion on what was said. I apologise that I have not provided the quotations for you to look at in advance, but I will do my best to paraphrase, if that is helpful.
In that meeting, the Scottish Government’s director for culture and external affairs, Mr Hogg, was asked about the issues around the appointment of the interim accountable officer. I ask you to reflect on this response. I am partly paraphrasing, although we may put the full quote into the Official Report. Mr Hogg said that he was reassured
“that there were no upcoming decisions that required the accountable officer to exercise oversight.”
He said, referring to the former chair of HES, that he had received
“assurances from the former chair that … there were no decisions that required the accountable officer to be in place.”—[Official Report, Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, 6 November 2025; c 7-8.]
He does not say whether he was satisfied with that response. Is it normal practice to decide whether there should be an interim accountable officer on the basis of reassurances that there is no need for one because there are no decisions to be made? That sounds like an extremely unusual reason for not appointing one.