Chamber and committees

I am sure that the Government is listening carefully to this exchange. Thank you for your comments.

Reform is not a new subject for the committee or, I suspect, our witnesses. It was touched on in each of the four written submissions. It is fair to say that the Scottish Solicitors Bar Association focused more on the fees and financial aspect of reform. The Scottish Legal Aid Board accepted the need for both short and medium to long-term reform. I was quite taken by the submission from Citizens Advice Scotland, which gave more pragmatic suggestions around issues such as triage and early intervention.

Other than reforms to legal aid fees and the funding of the sector, which we have discussed at great length, what practical or immediate reforms could, or should, we make to improve legal aid? That is an open question. I do not want to direct it to anyone specifically, because I am sure that all witnesses have a view on that. Now is their opportunity to share them.

Thank you for your forbearance, convener. I also thank the cabinet secretary and his officials for attending. That is unusual for a negative instrument but, given the nature of the SSI, it was helpful.

I do not propose to lodge a motion to annul the negative instrument, but I would like to note it. It will therefore come into force tomorrow, subject to the rest of the committee’s agreement, but with the caveat that concerns were raised not only by committee members but throughout the consultation process.

I have two caveats. First, when the consultation responses are released to the committee and the wider public in October, if it becomes clear that there are wider, substantive problems with the powers that we are extending tomorrow, we reserve the right to request that the cabinet secretary, the Scottish Prison Service and perhaps Her Majesty’s inspectorate reappear at the committee to respond. Secondly, given the length of the extension, it would be prudent for the committee to review it at a midway point—perhaps in January next year—and determine whether we are still comfortable or whether concerns remain.

I appreciate that that does not change the outcome of today’s proceedings, but it is important to put on the record that the committee and wider stakeholders had concerns with the extension of the powers. However, given the cliff-edge nature of the extension and the invidious position that we are in of having to approve or not approve the powers today, we are where we are.

The concerns are not only about the provisions of the SSI but the nature by which we are being asked to deliberate them.

Could I therefore make a request? Your written submission was helpful, with its one-page summary of ideas for reform, but it sounds like you had some very specific asks, some of which are legislative, some of which are policy driven and some of which are for the Government. Perhaps the committee has a role to play in some of that. Could you put in writing those very specific ideas and recommendations that you would like to be implemented? Then we could perhaps debate them as a committee.

Thank you. That was a technical answer to my question. Nonetheless, the powers expire tomorrow, so the committee has very little room for movement—to take further evidence, to scrutinise matters or to interrogate any of the stakeholders who inputted into the consultation. In fact, we learned in the response that we received late last night that the consultation responses will be published in October, which is way after when the instrument will—presumably—have been agreed to and the powers extended for another six months. That does not strike me as acceptable.

In the first instance, yes.

Thank you for that follow-up response. It is also the case that the conviction rate was nearly 49 per cent in 2015, but that dropped to 43 per cent this year, so there is a downward trend.

This is a chance to open up the discussion to the panel more widely. What do you want us to do and what do you think the Crown Office needs to do to improve the conviction rate? What should legislators be doing and talking about in this parliamentary session?

Thank you. That is helpful clarification. I do not think that anyone disagrees with the premise of how the law and society treat children. However, I raised the issue because specific concerns have been raised that what was initially perceived as being a safe space for the victims of crime may also be a place that will be used to facilitate the processing of those who have been accused of something. There are genuine concerns out there, and you are acutely aware of them—I can tell that from your response. As we go through the process, we will be looking for any comfort that you can provide that all children will be protected in that environment.

I echo Ms Stevenson’s comments and would welcome more information on this. What seems like a minor negative instrument extends for a significant period of time certain powers that governors in our prisons and young offenders institutions have, such as the ability to confine prisoners to their cells for prolonged periods of time, to restrict activity, to suspend prison visits and to curtail work, educational activities, counselling and purposeful activities for another six months.

I appreciate that this might be linked to the extension of other Covid regulations that were debated in the chamber more widely as part of other legislation. However, I note that paragraph 9 of the policy note says:

“SPS intends to publish the consultation, the responses received”—

which, I should add, were not all positive—

“and its response to the consultation responses on its website in October”.

However, the powers run out at the end of September, and we are being asked to approve their extension prior to the publication of the consultation and the SPS’s response. I find that wholly unacceptable. I therefore expect the Minister for Community Safety or whoever is presenting the SSI to give us more information on the concerns that have been raised in the consultation process so that members can take a view on the suitability of extending the powers as the SPS or the Government is asking for.