Chamber and committees

Just reading between the lines, it sounds as if, of your total ask rather than what you think is on offer, about half is for business as usual—it is to enable you to perform to the current standards and levels of policing—but the extra is for extra elements that you think will be needed to make the transformation that you want. Therefore, you are not in any way suggesting that what is proposed will not be enough to maintain current policing levels, current workforce levels or existing standards of service.

If you spend £15 million on body-worn cameras, that is something that you can see, touch and feel, and people will notice the difference, but if you spend it on a software upgrade, which has a net benefit to the force, no one is really interested in that.

I presume that there will be another one.

That is interesting.

My next question is for Mr Brown of the SPA—I want to make him feel included in the conversation. The SPA’s submission says:

“The Authority will continue to make a strong case for additional funding to Scottish Government, including proposals for borrowing or up-front funding for long term disposals/bridging finance.”

How much additional funding are you asking for from the Government? It would be helpful to know that so that we have an expectation ahead of the draft budget coming out. What are the proposals for borrowing that you refer to? What will you do with the extra money that you are given or that you borrow?

That is great.

I will follow on from that. I guess that the three strings to the puppet are interlinked. One string is the set level of fees, which is out of your control; it is a policy decision for Governments. The second string is the volume of cases that are brought to prosecution. The third string is the value of cases, which we have not discussed. There is probably no magic solution to all that. Surely, an increase in one or more of those would increase the level of grants that are paid out by SLAB and the amount of revenue coming into organisations such as Pauline McNeill mentioned, which are smaller scale and seem, on the face of it, to be struggling to survive. Where do you fit into the triangle in terms of getting those numbers up? We do not necessarily want to pay out more, but if that is the right thing to do because we have an uncapped system, then so be it. Something has to give. What is the most likely outcome?

I note that the previous survey was in 2018.

What savings are required to maintain the financial balance that you talk about in your submission?

I will touch on the issue of financial sustainability as part of your medium and long-term plans, which is linked to the budget. I refer specifically to your second submission to the committee. There is a lot of wording in there. Earlier, I asked more about the numbers, but my questions now are more about strategy. I have some cause for concern that I hope you can alleviate.

You talk about your current five-year financial plan and how you will maintain sustainability. You indicate that the plan will maintain current levels of policing but that that is dependent on four key factors. That strikes me as a key point. One of the factors is

“receiving funding increases in line with the commitment to real terms protection”.

What do you mean by “real terms protection”?

You also refer to “managing the workforce size”. What do you mean by that? Surely an increase means higher expenditure. You mention “managing non-pay pressures” and

“receiving compensatory funding to support lost income as a result of COVID-19.”

Those are big issues. What is the risk in relation to those four key determining factors that will allow you to maintain current levels of policing? How has the Government responded to those asks?

We are running out of time, so I will be brief. Do you see your organisation’s role as facilitating the administration of public money that goes to the legal profession, or are you more consumer facing? Many thousands of people are going to Citizens Advice Scotland, and we know that many of its services are being cut or have been lost recently. Is that a warning that people will no longer have an idea about where to go to seek advice and help? Could you play a better role by being more consumer focused, so that people would know who you are and where to go for direct advice from the body that administers the finance, rather than going to the third sector?

It sounds as if the legal aid payment review panel, which reported to Government earlier this year, has not gone down well with you either. You say that it

“has failed to produce any meaningful results.”

I note that there was a Government-initated question in Parliament today, and the Minister for Community Safety said that the Government accepts that more consultation and research into reform needs to be done. I am sure that we will come on to talk about reform later.

I have a separate question about moving forward. We all accept that we are where we are at the moment. I think it was Mr Moir who said that courts that were set up are being mothballed. We know that there is a backlog of almost 50,000 cases to get through, and that is a concern to everyone we have spoken to at the Crown Office and in the legal profession. How do we address the backlog in the short term if there simply are not enough people to do it? I will direct that question at the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service because you obviously have an ambitious drive to clear that backlog as soon as you can. We can do it if we have the buildings and the Crown resources, but we cannot do it if there are no defence lawyers. How do we plug that gap? That is quite worrying.