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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 July 2025
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Displaying 1619 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

—in how you manage Government and how you and your colleagues manage public services. I know that you are keen to divert attention to England and Wales, but I am not. This is the Scottish Parliament, it is a Scottish committee and you are the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans in Scotland. If we could keep our focus on the budget, that would be great.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

People call the police because they are desperate. They phone for an ambulance and are told to wait for hours, so they phone for the police to take them to hospital. They phone the police because they have phoned local authority social work departments that are closed out of hours. They phone the police because other public services have let them down. That is why people call 101 when they should not do so—because they are desperate, and the police are the first and last point of contact.

We have heard evidence from numerous officers, and from the SPA and the Scottish Police Federation, that the police have become a catch-all service. That simply adds to the pressures, and it is directly down to a failure to deliver the other vital public services that people need in an emergency. What conversations have you had with your Cabinet colleagues about relieving those pressures on the police?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

If the political direction of travel is to send fewer people to prison and offer alternatives, that policy will rely on the adequacy of those alternatives and on there being not just public faith but judicial faith and confidence in them. We have heard from sheriffs and judges who do not trust that those sentences will be carried out or delivered properly. Therefore, that leaves them with little alternative but to send people to prison. We cannot simply divert people from prison if there is nothing to divert them to; otherwise, we will absolutely lose public confidence in the service. Are you mindful of that as well?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Thank you. I just wanted to check.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

It certainly does—it was a very honest answer. Anil, do you have any comments?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

My direct question to you, though, is: does this feel like we are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut? You have talked about weaknesses and strengths in the system, but would it not be better to address those weaknesses directly and get to the roots of some of the problems that social work and criminal justice social work face before introducing into the process a new tier of management that will inevitably take work from local authorities and then just give it back to them? It just seems like an unnecessary and cumbersome step in the process.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Finally, I have what you might call a simple A, B or C question. Would it be your preference to pause the bill in its entirety in order to go back and perform that much-needed consultation that you spoke of; scrap it completely because you think that the whole idea is completely bonkers; or remove the criminal justice elements from the bill and let the rest of it proceed? I guess that all those options are open to Government.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I think that it falls somewhere between A and B. Thank you very much for that. Does COSLA have a view?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Thank you. That was very helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

No, I will let others come in. I have had a good run.