Chamber and committees

They are not quite ready to be implemented. We are still trying to achieve consensus, but the evidence that the committee has taken has been absolutely correct: we have made massive progress and we are significantly ahead of other UK nations, because we have been working for many years on the voluntary sectoral bargaining tool.

I will let Martin Reid say more about the detail.

My very first conversation with the unions was on exactly that topic. The language used varies round the table, and one of the first things that needs to be done is define that in your sector.

Do you want to have a go at that, Martin?

I did not know that minutes had not been produced.

I do not think that we are planning further consultation, but, once the legislation is passed in the UK Parliament, we definitely need to pause and reflect on whether we will pursue the process with statutory underpinning or continue with our voluntary process as envisaged.

The fair work in social care approach was specifically brought in for Scotland, and, when we consulted the fair work group, it clearly liked the work that has been done so far. We will need to pause and reflect. I do not think that we need to consult too much more, and we have the mechanisms in place to ensure that we hear from the sector.

The UK Employment Rights Bill, as it is amended at the moment, includes provisions to establish a social care negotiating body, but we do not have to do that. We can choose not to implement that part of the legislation in Scotland, but we might find that it is more effective.

Yes. As we have illustrated with our answers, things are not quite agreed, although we are very close to agreement. I absolutely understand the frustration of people working in the sector that their terms, conditions and pay are not improving fast enough. That is the concern that was outlined to the committee last week. I agree—I would like to go further and faster. A number of limits are in place. We have just about managed to work out a mechanism that can help us to navigate what is a complex landscape. The other challenge will be finding the money, but we are keen to do that. We are committed and we have a track record.

You are absolutely correct that employment law is reserved. The bill is required to devolve some power to the Scottish ministers to make changes. We saw the bill coming on the horizon and recognised the opportunity to underpin much of the work that we have done on sectoral bargaining by seeking to extend the bill’s scope to Scotland.

When the bill was introduced, it was intended to be for England only. Scotland and Wales in particular were pretty keen for its scope to be extended. That will give us the option to regulate for negotiated fair pay agreements for the sector as an alternative to the voluntary process, which we think will be useful.

On your point about the reserved nature of employment law, the Scottish Government, much of civic Scotland and trade unions are all keen for employment law to be devolved. Under the mechanism that is in the bill, there is an issue that, despite the area being devolved, UK ministers will still have to consent. It is fair to say that we would have preferred not to have that. At the moment, relations are very positive with the UK Government, but there have been times in the recent past when we have had very different views on how we should proceed. Having to ask the UK Government for permission to implement fair work is not my choice.

We have negotiated a change to that. The arrangements were introduced in that way for England, but we and Wales are both keen on including children’s social care staff, and that will be the position in Scotland.

The Scottish Government welcomes the introduction of the bill. I am positive about the part that we are discussing today in particular, which is a real step forward. We need to spend time working with the sector to bottom out whether people in Scotland would prefer the arrangement to be voluntary or to have a statutory underpinning. However, I am absolutely delighted that the legislative consent motion will give us both options—it does not mean that we will have to introduce one option over the other. We have done a great deal of work towards the voluntary arrangement—as I said, we are nearly there—and I do not want to lose the progress that we have made, but I absolutely want to have both options, and that is why I am recommending approval.

We can probably furnish you with some costs. I have spoken before about the on-going costs of the increase in employer national insurance contributions, which we think will cost social care in Scotland between £84 million and £100 million a year, every year, from now on. We are trying to regularly update people and help them to understand the situation, because some of the figures are enormous. We will gather some costings together and provide them to the committee.