On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is my understanding of standing orders that members should treat each other with courtesy and address each other via the chair. Can you confirm that that is correct?

The committee considered the bill in its entirety, including all the different sections, one of which concerns Anne’s law.

The consensus agreement with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on shared legal accountability means that a number of the bill’s key aspects will need to change. Accountability for social care will no longer be transferred from local authorities to Scottish ministers, and integration joint boards will no longer be replaced by local care boards. Instead, a national care service board is proposed, and local government will now retain social care functions, staff and assets.

Although many people welcome that shift in approach, we need to acknowledge that others have been left feeling disappointed that it fails to reflect the core aspirations of the Feeley review. There will be a job to do to rebuild trust with those people.

Our committee has noted the Scottish Government’s intention to bring about changes to the bill through amendments at stage 2. A majority of the committee expressed a willingness to recommend that the general principles of the bill as introduced should be approved at stage 1. However, we have made that majority recommendation on the understanding that the Scottish Government is prepared to give the committee sufficient time to take further oral and written evidence on the details of those amendments prior to commencing the formal process of considering and disposing of amendments at stage 2.

I acknowledge the interim response that was received from the minister yesterday, and I am grateful to her for providing the committee with a summary target operating model for the proposed national care service. The minister has also given a commitment that she will formalise the extensive input that has so far been received from a wide range of stakeholders in a legislative advisory group that will guide the on-going development of the bill.

A majority of the committee specifically called for the full text of the Scottish Government’s stage 2 amendments, a marked-up version of the bill as introduced that incorporates those amendments in a highlighted format, and an updated policy memorandum and explanatory notes to be published no later than 29 March. I am particularly encouraged by the minister’s commitment, in her interim response, to accept that recommendation and

“to facilitate what the Committee requires, and to do this as quickly as possible.”

I look forward to listening to all the contributions to this afternoon’s debate. I acknowledge that, ultimately, it was not possible for the committee to reach a consensus position on the general principles of the bill. I recognise the strongly held positions of all members on the committee and across the chamber. However, if, later today, the Parliament agrees to approve the general principles of the bill at stage 1, as the majority of the committee recommended, I hope that all members, whatever view they express today, will continue to engage constructively with a reinforced scrutiny process at stage 2.

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I hold a bank contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. Will the cabinet secretary give further detail on how the public inquiry and the independent clinical review will work in parallel and complement one another?

South Lanarkshire Council, which is the local authority for my constituency of Rutherglen, will be paying about £40 million this year in disastrous PFI repayments. That yearly figure will only rise over the coming decade. When the council entered into those contracts, Labour was in power at council level, in Holyrood and at Westminster. The £40 million is being removed from the council’s spending power this year at a time when the council proposes to close local facilities and cut free school bus provision. Will the Deputy First Minister assure me that, although it is contending with Labour’s toxic PFI legacy, which has failed to deliver the best value for the taxpayer, the Scottish Government will never return to the disastrous PFI model?

The Health, Social Care and Sport Committee has undertaken extensive scrutiny of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill since its introduction in June 2022. That has included two calls for written evidence, 18 panels of witnesses, three oral evidence sessions and multiple exchanges of correspondence with the responsible minister. The committee held a number of informal engagement sessions with a range of people with lived experience and different experiences. To inform its scrutiny further, the committee commissioned a literature review of international models of social care, including a combination of different models in UK countries, European Union countries, Nordic countries, Switzerland, Alaska, the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

The committee also went to Aberdeen, where members met representatives of the Granite Care Consortium and visited the Camphill community to engage with staff and service users. We visited Dumfries, where members had informal discussions with Stewartry Care and other organisations that represent registered care homes and that provide registered care-at-home services, as well as with wider community and third sector organisations. On a visit to Glasgow, committee members met representatives from the Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland and service users and front-line staff from the organisation Key, before holding a formal meeting at the William Quarrier conference centre.

Meanwhile, six other committees have undertaken their own scrutiny of aspects of the bill that are relevant to their remit.

On 12 July last year, the Scottish Government wrote to inform the committee that it had reached an initial consensus agreement with COSLA on a partnership approach that will provide for shared legal accountability with respect to the proposed national care service. On 20 September, the Government confirmed its intention to lodge amendments to the bill to reflect the changes that were required as a result of the consensus agreement with COSLA. My committee subsequently wrote to the Government on 7 November requesting additional information regarding the precise implications of the consensus agreement for the bill, and we received a detailed response from the minister on 6 December.

The committee’s stage 1 report, which was published last week, sets out in detail the conclusions and recommendations that we have reached as a consequence of our exhaustive scrutiny. The consensus agreement with COSLA on the shared legal accountability means that a number of key aspects of the bill will need to change. Accountability for social care will no longer be transferred from local authorities to Scottish ministers. Integration joint boards will no longer be replaced by local care boards. Instead, a national care service board is proposed, and local government will now retain social care functions, staff and assets.

The Scottish Government has made clear its intention to bring about those changes to the bill through amendments at stage 2. On that basis, a majority of the committee has recommended that the general principles of the bill be agreed to. However, we have done so on the understanding that further scrutiny of the changes that the Scottish Government now proposes to make to the bill should take place as part of an elongated stage 2 process. That would include a further written call for evidence and the gathering of additional oral evidence before we progress to the formal part of stage 2, which is the consideration and disposal of amendments to the bill.

I regret that it was not possible for the committee to reach a consensus position on the general principles of the bill at stage 1. However, I underline my commitment to ensuring that substantial further scrutiny takes place at stage 2, as I have outlined.

Sandesh Gulhane wants to come in.

Thank you.

Again, I thank Lily and Alice for coming along this morning.

We will move to questions for the whole panel.

Thank you very much, Emily.

Good morning, and welcome to the sixth meeting in 2024 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Ruth Maguire MSP; James Dornan MSP is attending as a substitute.

Today, we begin our scrutiny of the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill. As Gillian Mackay MSP is the member in charge of the bill, Gillian will not participate in the committee’s scrutiny of the bill by virtue of rule 9.13A.2(b). Ross Greer MSP will attend in her place as a committee substitute by virtue of rule 12.2A.2. Welcome, Ross. By virtue of rule 12.2.3(a), Gillian Mackay is attending the meeting as the member in charge of the bill. Welcome, Gillian.

The first item on our agenda is to decide whether to take item 5 in private and whether to consider in private at future meetings evidence heard at those meetings as part of the committee’s stage 1 scrutiny of the Abortion (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill. Are members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.