Chamber and committees

On ASN, it is not my understanding that the £29 million funding includes the specialist provision that goes to the individual schools that we fund directly, for example. This is about us providing additionality to local authorities for specialist staff. One of the points that the committee made in its inquiry was that we have seen reductions in relation to the number of specialist staff in our schools, and I accept that. That £29 million is earmarked for that purpose, and we are working with COSLA to identify what those interventions might look like. For example, one of the points that the member has made to me in the chamber concerns the reduction in the number of ASN specialist teachers. I am sympathetic to that point, and I think that some of that £29 million should be used by local authorities to employ more ASN teachers. That is a decision for them, but the funding package gives them the opportunity to do that. They might also want to employ educational psychologists and so on, and they may want to invest in speech and language provision. That is what that £29 million is earmarked for.

There is a programme of work that is currently being led by Education Scotland on PEF sampling, which is essentially to identify the best areas of practice and to lift those up so that others can learn from them. I think that that addresses the member’s point.

There is a range of measures that headteachers across the country are taking. In my experience, PEF is often used to employ additional staff—I think that I mentioned that in response to a previous question. As a result of PEF there are now just over 3,000 additional staff in our schools.

PEF is being used for a variety of interventions. When I go into schools and speak to headteachers, I am always struck by their reliance on the fund. It is hugely important in driving change in our schools and in providing support to our young people, particularly in the post-pandemic period.

Bringing in a funding stream that empowered headteachers and allowed them to make decisions was a real change in culture. The way that we previously funded our schools did not allow for that; there was a quite centralised approach in which local authorities provided funding to schools. Now, headteachers are in the driving seat for making decisions that bring into play interventions to make a real difference.

Earlier this week, I had a discussion with officials on the PEF sampling work that I spoke about. I would be more than happy to share details of that work and where interventions are having the greatest impact, if the committee would like me to do so.

George Adam is absolutely right: if you go into your constituencies and speak to headteachers, you will see the difference that the additional funding is making on the ground. Many headteachers evangelise about the difference that it makes and about the importance of having such additionality in their school community.

The member raises a really important point. It is a broad measure but there are different levels of need in that subset. It is quite a broad measure for good reason: in the past, a number of young people would have completed their school education without ever having the additional support to which they were entitled. It is a good thing that more young people are having their needs met or an identified support need acknowledged and supported in school.

However, the member is right to say that that broad measure perhaps does not tell us the true story. Within that subset, there will be a variance in need. It is important to recognise that the measure covers a variety of different things. For example, gifted children are covered under the ASN measure. We need to be mindful of that when talking about high-tariff young people who might need complex additional support in their school education.

—we are going to make progress on eradicating child poverty through the interventions in this portfolio and the additionality that is coming to the education and skills portfolio. I should say that that has been welcomed by a range of different stakeholders.

Yes, of course—

No, but it goes some way towards making progress. I recall that we discussed this issue this time last year, Mr Rennie, and I am sure that you will welcome the additional funding in the budget again this year to provide that uplift. The situation will continue to be a challenge, but we will work with the PVI sector on it.

More broadly, I am cognisant that we cannot deliver on aspirations for ELC without the PVI sector. We need to have a strong PVI sector to supplement additional delivery of ELC by local authorities across the country.

The additionality for pay has been welcomed. I recognise the challenge that the member has raised on a number of occasions with my colleague Ms Don-Innes in the chamber. I am happy to engage with him on that further if he has further views, but there is additionality in the budget to meet that budget ask.

In what respect? Would you like to set a timescale on it?

No. What I have said, though, is that we are looking to further develop some of our expansion, which is why the additionality in the budget for the bright start breakfasts campaign is hugely welcome. I hope that that will be welcomed by all parties, because—

I think that we have listened to the sector more broadly. I very much recognise the challenges within the college sector. We spoke to the committee about them last year and Mr Dey has been driving forward that work as part of his engagement with the sector and his work to provide flexibilities.

You spoke about some of the challenges relating to capital, but those have been offset by the ending of work on Dunfermline learning campus, which accounts for that reduction. If you subtract the budget for that from the figures, there has been a slight increase in the capital allocation.

Yes—absolutely. Members will know—I think that they may be aware—that I was a teacher before I did this job and, having taught hungry children, I know that it makes a real difference if children have had something to eat before they come into school.

On that point, I should say that the budget makes additional provision for pre-school breakfast clubs, through the bright start breakfasts programme, which is important and will make a huge contribution. It is also worth pointing out that approximately 50 per cent of schools in Scotland already have some sort of breakfast provision. Some headteachers use their pupil equity fund, through the attainment challenge funding that Ms Dunbar asked me about, to fund breakfast provision in their schools. There is a mixed model across the country.

The bright start breakfasts pilot programme that we have introduced will help to give us some additional information on how we could roll out that provision further, because we know that investment in school nutrition, whether it is in free breakfasts or free school meals, makes a real impact in improving attainment.