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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Do you mean with regard to closing the gap?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

May I ask a question? My apologies, convener—I realise that I am here to be questioned.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Is the member talking about young people who are aged 15 who are not able to access a subject of their choice in school, for example?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am not going to announce today a review of how we measure positive destinations, but I take the member’s point. SDS carries out the tracking for us in that regard. We track the longer-term trajectory of young people when they leave school, at intervals of three months and then nine months.

It might interest Mr Briggs to look at the data set from three months out then nine months out. There is a disconnect—we accept that. Beyond school, there are things that can be undertaken by Government, but other agencies are often involved in the delivery of support to a young person in that period of their life.

We also introduced the annual participation measure as part of the national improvement framework. That gives us a greater ability to measure the number of 16 to 19-year-olds who are in school, or perhaps at college or university, and gives us a truer picture of their progress across time.

There has been a slight increase, of 0.8 per cent, in participation between 2023 and 2024 for those in quintile 1—that is, those in the 20 per cent most deprived areas of Scotland. In 2024, there was an 8.2 per cent gap in participation by 16 to 19-year-olds living in the 20 per cent most deprived and 20 per cent least deprived areas; that is the narrowest gap on record.

I take the member’s point, and it might be that some of his suggestions in relation to positive destinations are looked at in the round as part of the education reform that is more in Mr Dey’s space. Nevertheless, I will take that away from today’s meeting, convener. The member raises an important point, which has been rehearsed in the chamber previously.

Nonetheless, I go back, in the round, to my original response to Mr Rennie—which I know that he does not like—that 95.7 per cent of our young people are now in a positive destination. That is to be welcomed and celebrated. These young people were being let down by the education system before we started giving them that extra support, tracking, advice and encouragement. I think that we have completely turned around the way in which we support some young people.

To reiterate David Gregory’s point, not so long ago, in terms of tracking, it was university or nothing after school—there was maybe a job, or college, but there was often a gap. We have become far better at tracking that progress across time. We can undoubtedly improve—I accept that. I think that that is the point that the member makes.

However, I go back to the comments from Gillian Campbell-Thow, the headteacher who was on the radio with Mr Briggs. I confess that a colleague tipped me off to that interview: I do not routinely sit listening to the radio waiting for Mr Briggs to come on. Gillian Campbell-Thow said in response to Mr Briggs last week that

“We need to look at the currency of these qualifications before we start saying that you’ll be doing a disservice to children in having 15 per cent of all school leavers leave without anything.”

Her point was really about looking at the totality of achievements.

I think—I have reflected on this with officials—that some of our measurements are not showing the totality of the picture of the achievements of all our young people.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Do you mean tomorrow’s meeting?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

We will take that away, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Potentially, but I must be very careful, convener, because of the rules on ONS classification in relation to direct support. I do not think that it would be appropriate for me to say any more until we have received the advice from the SFC.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

We see that even when extrapolating poverty.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

You are speaking about the draft order, and I reflect that there have been changes in leadership roles in recent times. That has been reflected in the evidence that the committee has heard. I also reflect on the fact that we have a new chair in the form of Shirley Rogers. Shirley Rogers has been leading some transformational—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I have accepted that the Government will, in a Parliament of minorities, always have to work on a cross-party basis.