The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1443 contributions
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I am aware of the petition. I am fairly certain that the Government has given a response to it.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
In the past financial year, we managed to increase the number of teachers in our schools by 63, thanks to the Liberal Democrats and others around the table supporting extra funding for our teachers, which was welcomed.
As Mr Rennie knows, the Government does not employ teachers, so certain local authorities have taken the money but reduced teacher numbers, and, in relation to the issues that Mr Greer raised, there are challenges because of that. I will pursue that issue directly with COSLA.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I do not think that any of us want another strike by teachers. I certainly do not want one on my watch, so I am keen to avoid that. Two or three weeks ago, in the Parliament, I met the EIS and the other professional associations to talk about those issues in more detail, and we have to resolve those challenges.
One point that I will put on record—I have said this publicly previously—is that the trade unions have a view that pay and conditions should be negotiated separately, which is entirely in their gift. However, I observe that, when I was transport minister, the transport unions did not necessarily take the view that such matters should be negotiated separately—they wanted to negotiate them together. The separation means that we could perhaps have seen a resolution to the issue more timeously than we did, because teachers have had successive pay increases each year. That means that teachers are more expensive to employ and the budget, which Mr Greer rightly talked about, becomes more constricted. However, we will have to work on those issues through the SNCT.
On how changes will be implemented, I have spoken to all the professional associations, and I am very keen to work with them to establish pilots based on what works. We have to work with the profession to understand its needs and the practical requirements of timetabling. I speak as a secondary specialist, but changes will look different in primary schools, which have other challenges as well. However, we also need to provide some reassurance because our independent modelling shows that, if local authorities had gone back to 2023 levels, there would be enough primary school teachers in the system to deliver the reduction in class contact. I welcome Mr Rennie’s party’s support for last year’s budget, which allowed for an increase in funding to be provided for teacher numbers and for ASN. That will make the difference when it comes to delivering a reduction in class contact.
We also have to give teachers time. We have looked at international comparisons in relation to how many hours teachers are working. I know that teachers are currently stressed and struggling. We have talked about ASN before in this committee, and we agree that we have to create the necessary headspace for teachers. We are trying to reform our education system, which we cannot do if we do not give teachers time to engage with the process. It is important not only for our children and young people but for our teachers, who are professionals, to have the headspace and time to engage in the work of education reform.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I am not necessarily sure that I was blaming anyone, Mr Rennie. I was simply pointing out that the financial environment that we have is different to the one that existed in 2021.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
Sorry, I missed the final sentence. Could you just repeat the—
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
There is quite a lot in there, Mr O’Kane, but I will try to touch on it all.
I do not recall flat out saying that attendance is purely a matter for local authorities. Of course the Government has a role to play in that. We have shared legal responsibilities that are set out in statute in that regard. Ministers have a clear responsibility, but the statutory responsibility rests with local authorities. We can provide advice and guidance, and we do that on a range of different things such as behaviour, for example, and I am sure that we will come on to talk about that.
Mr O’Kane cited a number of areas in attendance and, if I was to draw out the attainment statistics for those areas, they would look impressive. There is a correlation between poverty and attendance and that is accounted for in the data that was published last week, which shows that pupils from poorer communities struggle more with their attendance than those who do not come from those communities. We need to be mindful of that gap.
Mr O’Kane also mentioned the RICs, on which I took a decision two years ago. I know that Mr O’Kane is new to his role, and I encourage him to go out and speak to teachers about their experiences with the RICs. Most teachers that I have engaged with have varying views of them. Some of the RICs—
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I am not going to comment on Michael Marra, because he is not here this afternoon, Mr Rennie.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I am very sorry that Mr Rennie cannot welcome the progress in Scottish education that we have seen in the past 12 months.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I set out to Parliament some of the work in this space last week, but going back to Mr Mason’s reference to children in Glasgow, I just want to touch briefly on ASN data. About a month ago, we had a really interesting summit at Murrayfield stadium with a range of partners, looking at ASN measurements across the country. There is variance in what we mean by ASN and, in the context of that measurement, what that looks like in individual local authorities, and that does not give me confidence in the consistency of application or in how we are recording these things. Therefore, we are working with local authorities to audit this space, essentially, and help drive improvement in it. I am happy to write to the committee with more detail on that, because it is a key part of the work that we are taking forward.
The other key part of our work, which follows a suggestion from Mr Rennie that came through the cross-party round table, is a national event that will, I hope, be hosted in February. Again, I am happy to write to the committee with more detail on that; indeed, I want to invite committee members to attend it.
The approach taken in the event will be to share good practice on what works. We know that across the country just now there are lots of good examples of support for children with additional support needs. Some of that direction—in fact, much of it—will not come from central Government; it will not come from me, and nor will it come from local authorities. As I saw in a secondary school in Edinburgh very recently, individual headteachers will very often use their own ingenuity to plan approaches that best meet the needs of their children and young people.
A headteacher in Edinburgh—whom I would encourage the committee to engage with; I can share details with the committee after the meeting—essentially restructured the staffing in his school, and his approach has led to better support for all young people, not just those with additional support needs. I found my interaction with him to be extremely informative; we might want to share learning from that at the national event—I do not have any detail on which schools we will be looking at there—and I am certain that there is learning that the committee will be interested in.
There is, of course, the review work, too. I do want to say more about the review that the Government has committed to carrying out, and I am happy to write to the committee with more detail on those aspects in due course.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Meeting date: 17 December 2025
Jenny Gilruth
It is.