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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 November 2025
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Displaying 1354 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

That is a good question. I am sure that my colleague the Minister for Parliamentary Business would be delighted to come to the committee and comment on that. However, I will say that we are always striving to make processes within Government more effective and efficient. I am sure that any thoughts on how we can do that in the legislative process would be very welcome.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

It would be difficult to do a true like-for-like comparison, in the sense that a lot of things will have changed in the nature of public services that we are providing and how we provide them. It would be a difficult comparison, because you are comparing the world as it is now with what it was back then in terms of the range and nature of public services that we provide or, indeed, the demand on them. I am happy to look at and assess the process that was gone through to arrive at that 40 per cent and see whether there is any way that we can update that.

I remember that exact wording in Christie’s report. It referred to a previous piece of work that was done—I cannot recall by who—and “up to” 40 per cent was the terminology that they used. I do not think that it was a hard and fast number, but it certainly gives an indication of the scale of the opportunity.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

In terms of providing the leadership, absolutely, but you have to recognise that—this is not an excuse; it is just the reality—public bodies are not subsidiaries of ministers. They are operationally independent to varying degrees. Although we control the amount of funding that we allocate to them, the effectiveness with which they adopt efficiency measures can be variable, frankly. That is why it is important that we continue to work with public sector leaders.

The governance board, which will have its first meeting by the end of this month, will contain public sector leaders and private sector-experienced individuals with experience in the area. We are seeking to roll out more measures for monitoring workforce and recruitment in public bodies. We continue to collect more data on how public bodies choose to spend the money that the Scottish Government allocates to them. All of that is about moving us in the right direction on having better data, more coherent policy and strategy, more engagement and, frankly, more empowerment of public body leaders, so that we can work together to seize those opportunities.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

It is already available. It was published last November.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Yes, absolutely. Last year, we did it on historical data, and we are now doing it on budgeted data. We are getting ahead of the curve and we will establish an efficient process. We do not want collection of another big load of data to be put on public bodies. We will update that.

The 2022-23 data is available, and the savings that we have delivered on estates and procurement and other aspects of the hard savings are already there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

You would need to have an evidential base for doing something differently. I suppose that we are working in three dimensions. We are first looking at—as the convener said—how much money an increase would raise. I am looking at the data that is in front of me. Officials will correct me if I am wrong, but there seems to be about 110,000 tonnes at the lower rate, so a £1 increase would bring in an extra £100,000. That would be welcome, but it would not shift the dial on the budget.

If you start to increase that rate by too much and the differential grows, is there the potential for waste tourism? That is the last thing we want, because it makes everything more difficult.

Then there is the question how the current rates are driving behavioural change. With the numbers coming down year on year, it looks as though the tax is having the intended policy impact of driving such behavioural change. However, I would be happy to look at the evidence and to do some modelling as best we can with the information that we have to see what making some changes in future years might deliver.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Sorry, convener—I just want to correct the record, I have just noticed in my notes that there were about 600,000 tonnes at the lower rate, and 110,000 tonnes of that was soil. There was other material in that figure as well, so it is more significant, although not in the big scheme of things.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Indeed, we shall.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

That is a matter for the First Minister, and I do not want to say any more on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

I would not want to make any such suggestions. I am sure that the committee will make up its own mind on what matters it wants to put forward. I would say that it is genuinely a privilege to serve as a minister in the Scottish Government, regardless of any issues around salary sacrifice.