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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 1396 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

First, as I said, we recognise the importance of economic growth—of course we do; it is central to the Government’s mission. Enterprise agencies are not the only players there, but they have a role to play. The funding that is allocated is to support their activities, which are delivering results across a range of areas.

The budget process is about ensuring that we allocate funds as appropriate across all portfolios, given competing pressures—and there is no shortage of pressures across the piece. We believe that the money that is allocated means that enterprise agencies can effectively deliver what they need to. Of course we would like there to be more funds, but they are getting significant results with the funds that they are being allocated.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

It is important to reflect on the principle that, in most cases, the policy decision on how the funding is spent is in one portfolio but the delivery sits in another. That reflects the cross-cutting nature of the challenges that we face. Portfolios do not operate in silos. Indeed, as the committee recognises, a huge part of the work that we are taking forward through the public service reform agenda is to break down silos and allow funds to flow more easily so that we can deliver on outcomes and not just focus on inputs in the budget sense. If, therefore, you accept that policy decisions need to be made as part of overall policy on health, for example, but the delivery of that resource is through another portfolio, it makes sense to have those transfers.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

I welcome input from the committee on how to address that issue. I would not say that having those transfers is ludicrous; it reflects the complexity of the work that we are doing. The reality is that policy decisions are taken in the round across the budget so that those resources have the greatest impact. The delivery of that does not—

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

I would not use the word “control”. I go back to the fact that we have a complex and interrelated system and that, in order to set a budget and have accountability, that has to be broken down into chunks or what you might call “silos”. There is huge recognition that one of our biggest challenges is about having the ability to co-ordinate, integrate and join up so that funds flow to where they will make the most impact, which may not be where they sit on the page. That requires flexibility but also co-operation, and money has to move between portfolios to facilitate that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

Of course.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

You can call it “tinkering”, or you can call it “agility”, but—

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

I appreciate that, but I do not understand your point. They operate within that environment, knowing that their budget could change during the year, and they have reserves to manage as well. They have the whole range of levers that they can pull, as do we, but we are constrained by that broader picture.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

Again, I am not following. Local government delivers services such as education, social care, housing and so on, which are within the total budget. There is complexity in terms of what moves around. Everybody is working within that environment. Unfortunately, we do not have certainty on multiyear funding, and things change in-year.

As we roll out the reform agenda we increasingly find an interconnectedness, with a requirement for flexibility in how funds move. Take whole-family support, for example. That consists of a whole series of funding pockets from different portfolios. The range of public servants who are engaging with a family on the ground will want those elements of funding to be joined up, and that requires a mechanism that allows funds to flow effectively at the local level. That is the reality of what we are doing.

There is very little ring fencing with local government. The vast majority of that has now been taken out and, for the most part, local authorities must now make decisions as to how they allocate the resources.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

As we go through the year, there are negotiations with the relevant trade unions and workforces to arrive at agreed pay awards, which obviously have an impact on the budget figures. We do not necessarily know at the start of the year exactly what the figures will be. However, the move towards multiyear arrangements—many of the deals now cover two years or more—will provide us with a bit more certainty on the numbers.

We value our public sector workers and think that they should be adequately rewarded. Obviously, the impact of the cost of living and high inflation flows through into those payments. I think that the general public would be comfortable that we are paying the people who are serving them well to do their jobs, whether they are in the front-line in the health service, in classrooms, or in the police service. Unlike down south, we have avoided the need for industrial action, which is important.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

The key question is how much is moved every year.