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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 1596 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

Thank you all—that was very helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

My question relates quite well to what has just been discussed. This issue has been directly mentioned and alluded to a number of times this morning, but is there anything more that you want to emphasise regarding concerns about the nature of the substances that are coming into the prison system now? There are synthetic substances that are often more dangerous and potent and in smaller amounts. We have heard a lot about that challenge in our evidence. Is there anything more that you would like to say about it?

Secondly, there was an interesting discussion just a few moments ago about the differences in service provision. One would expect that, due to health and social care partnerships being different in different parts of the country. One striking thing that we have heard in this inquiry is that it is actually a positive thing for there to be differentiation between services in the country, and that it is good to have a specific ability to provide certain services in certain places, both in prison and outwith it, in the community, to provide support for substance abuse and recovery.

However, are there any common gaps across the country that we should be aware of? As we went into the inquiry, my concern was that there might be gaps in certain places, given that there is differentiation without a consistent approach across the country. Is there any reassurance that the way that things are going right now is sufficient? That would be welcome. Alternatively, are there areas in which you think that X service should be delivered across the country but is not being delivered at the moment? I hope that that question makes sense.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

You have covered it. It was about how concerned you are about synthetic drugs now and in the future, whether there is anything positive to emphasise about differentiation of services within and outwith prisons, and whether there are any gaps.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

Thank you. Does anyone else want to come in?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

Thank you for your time and for the evidence that you have given, as well as for speaking so powerfully in the media yesterday and this morning at our committee. For a number of reasons, and because of a number of factors—including Covid, the success of Police Scotland and its investigations, and what has happened through the court process—it is clear that we collectively face an unprecedented set of circumstances in our prisons.

At the end of this process, we will write a report with recommendations. I would like to ask about a few specific areas where you think actions could make a difference and what those actions might be. I will ask a generic question first. What would make the difference for you and your members in dealing with these unprecedented circumstances in a way that is less pressurised and less challenging and that allows the rehabilitation that we all want to see more of? Is it more estate or more staff? Neither of those things is easy to deliver quickly. What do solutions look like for you?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate that it is not simple.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

I have a question that was provoked by something that Dr Victoria Marland said earlier, but it also relates to things that other witnesses have said. You talked about the success of the photocopying initiative and you said that, because of its impact, there is now a trend of synthetic substances coming into prisons in powder form. Whether it would be appropriate to answer now or to follow up privately, it would be good to have an understanding of how that is happening. Is it through drone deliveries or other ways? How are substances in powder form entering the prison estate? If you would prefer to follow up by email, we will totally understand.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate that that makes the situation even more challenging because of the impact of just a small amount of synthetic substance. Thanks for relaying that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

Thank you for putting that so succinctly.

Briefly, on solutions in that same space, are there things that we could do or things that we could change that would help to make a difference? I absolutely appreciate that the vast majority of prison staff are, to use your word, incorruptible, but, to build on what my colleagues have already asked, could more be done to address the very small minority who are vulnerable to corruption?

10:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Ben Macpherson

So, the process is not robust enough right now.