Chamber and committees

Sure. I have a specific question that is based on the evidence that we heard on 9 September. In relation to helping to improve processes in the court system, Malcolm Graham advised us that a submission had been made for £2.5 million from the Scottish Government’s £30 million invest to save fund for public service reform programmes, and that an answer had not been received on that. Has that been actioned in the month since then?

Although we face challenges in this country, an observer could say, as a statement of fact as well as perception, that those issues are much worse in certain other parts of the UK. In Scotland, we are in a position or at a juncture where, if we take the action that is needed now, we can really push back against some of those forces, which are being driven by factors that are beyond the borders of Scotland and are perhaps in the digital sphere. From my experience in my constituency and the information that the committee has received, it feels like we are at a key point to make an impact, and we want to support you on that, cabinet secretary.

Building on that, you will be aware of the concerns that the communities that we represent have about the challenge relating to the involvement of people under the age of criminal responsibility in extremely serious antisocial and violent behaviour. Can you say anything more about the Government’s work on and attention to those issues more generally, as well as on the specific issues of knife crime, e-scooters and so on?

As well as talking about prevention, you spoke earlier about action to tackle child poverty and how that helps with reducing the number of people coming into the criminal justice system, and I very much agree with what you said. Can you say anything more about that, especially in relation to those who are being released from short-term sentences? What work is the Government doing to reduce the reoffending of those who have already been in the prison estate? Are you working with both third sector partners and local authorities when it comes to issues such as housing and all the other challenges that people face on release?

I know that, following the meeting with Lisa Petrie, and given that, in the case of her son’s stabbing, the offender had been involved in a violent attempted murder—or, certainly, a serious assault with a weapon—not long beforehand, you are giving consideration in your dialogue with the courts to what the bail situation should be when an offender has been involved in instances of severe violence.

I want to return to the theme of the perception of the rule of law and the points that were made about that. Is the Government giving consideration to that issue, in the context of the rise in incidents involving e-bikes and e-scooters, knife crime, shoplifting—which is a challenge across the UK—and youth crime in general?

I talked about the strong signal that operation portaledge has sent—not just to those engaged in organised crime, but to the public at large—that the state is acting and things are being done. I am concerned that we need some of that in the space of youth crime, minor crime, e-bikes and e-scooters, which are the subjects of too much of the casework that I am getting and too much of what we have heard in evidence. It worries me that there is a sense in some parts of our community, and among some people, that the system is creaking. We need to send a strong message that it is there and it is being effective.

11:30

I will try to bring some of the discussion together. I share the cabinet secretary’s view that Scotland is generally safe and secure, and I think that it is important that we emphasise that. In many experiences with the criminal justice system, people feel that justice has been done and exercised for the common good and that their interests have been taken on board.

However—this statement is true across the UK, and a lot of the issue stems from decisions that were made by the UK Government in 2010—there is clearly a lot of pressure on the area. That is what the committee has heard in recent weeks, and I know that you will regularly hear that issue raised in relation to front-line policing, the challenges in our prison system, the waiting times in courts, the challenge of ensuring that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has the appropriate coverage, and so on.

Does the whole Parliament need to get to a place where it acknowledges the pressure, so that we can help to move the necessary resources into this and maintain the perception that the rule of law is exercised well and that we are moving towards having a safer country, rather than letting people become more worried about the challenges that they see in their communities?

I agree. I recognise strong examples of good work, such as operation portaledge, which demonstrated the strength of the state with regard to its ability to tackle organised crime, which is behind a number of the issues that colleagues have raised today. However, I am concerned that much of the evidence that we have heard in past weeks suggests quite low morale in a number of aspects of the criminal justice system, because of the pressure and the demand on it—I acknowledge that some of that demand is because of the success of various initiatives.

The rule of law is fundamental in itself, but the perception of it in communities is also important, whether that involves knife crime, antisocial behaviour or early release. It is clear to me that, as part of the upcoming budget process, there must be a real-terms increase in the budget for justice and the fire service. I recognise the many pressures across Government and the need to invest in prevention in various policy areas, but it seems to me that the case for greater investment in your portfolio is very strong, and I look forward

to that discussion in the pre-budget scrutiny to come. I do not know whether you want to say anything about that just now.

10:45

I know for a fact that that sort of exploitation is happening. I also know for a fact that the unintended consequence that you mentioned of a perception that there is no deterrent in the criminal justice system—an unintended consequence of very well-intended changes, I should say, the majority of which are having a positive impact—is not a myth. Young people are engaging in very concerning harmful activity, and the criminal justice system is not apprehending or deterring them.

This is a really serious question for us right now, because the more time that passes, the more the trend grows and the more harm it causes. We, as a committee, are determined to do our part to address it—many members are asking about it in the chamber, too—but having your assistance in making things better will be pivotal.

Our time is limited, but it would be really helpful and interesting for us to hear more about what the Violence Reduction Unit thinks that we could do. If you wanted to put that in correspondence to us, we would receive it gladly.

Absolutely.

Yes, and there is also an issue about where the accommodation is.